Question about "penetration style" stack wraps

Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
Although I've looked at quite a few stack wraps, both online but especially on some beautiful cues, I have a question about how one would go about preparing the leather for a special "penetration style" wrap.

If I wanted to produce one that was totally special, with various colors that remain quite distinct, what is the best way to do that? Say tan in one area, deep red next to that, and black further down, with the colors alternating randomly.

Any suggestions?

Flex
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
Flex said:
If I wanted to produce one that was totally special, with various colors that remain quite distinct, what is the best way to do that? Say tan in one area, deep red next to that, and black further down, with the colors alternating randomly.
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Call the really helpful people at Tiger Products and tell them what you want.... they will make it happen for you. :thumbup:
 
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
Sheldon said:
Call the really helpful people at Tiger Products and tell them what you want.... they will make it happen for you. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Tiger does a really nice job on wraps, but I'm just not willing to fork over $175 for a wrap that I can put on my cue for about $10.

I've done them before, and am going to do it again this time.

As you might surmise, I'm a do-it-yourselfer at times. This is one of those times.

So, any suggestions as to preparing the leather would be most appreciated. As this is being written, I'm testing my ideas out in this area and will know pretty soon if what I'm doing will work.

Just thought I'd seek help from the collected wisdom of cuemakers and others who post on AZ as to a good way to proceed.

Thanks for the suggestion about Tiger. Ryan at Mueller's also does nice work, at a reduced (but still too pricey for me) price.

Flex
 
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
Arnot Wadsworth said:
If you can do it for $10.00 knock yourself out. If you have done it before you know it is worth a whole lot more than $10.00.

I think you have a lot of gall. First you tell us cuemakers our wraps are only worth $10.00 and then you ask for our help.:shocked: Dream on - learn the way we did; the hard way with no help from anybody.

You already know it all. :bash:
Click to expand...

Mr. Wadsworth,

Once again you have shown me why I'll never give you any work.

Of course I know it's worth more than $10, and how much work it takes. However, I take pride in my craftsmanship and want to do it myself. I also don't think a stack leather wrap is worth $175. If I thought $175 was a good value, I'd ship my cue off to Tiger or Muellers and have them do it.

You, sir, do yourself no service by insulting me. I'm glad you have all the work you can handle, for you'll not get any of mine.

Flex
 
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
Arnot Wadsworth said:
Sorry that you feel that way:confused: But on second thought after looking at your choice of cues, I'm just as glad: Player: Custom Schmelke 19 oz. full-splice Ebony with 11 mm shaft; 1/2 inch ferrule; 15 inch pro taper; milk dud tip
Breaker: Schmelke 19 oz. full-splice Cocobolo with 13 mm shaft, white diamond tip,
Jumper: Stealth Airtime, white diamond tip

Be careful not to get so tangled up in that stack leather cord that you cannot work your little typing fingers.

Stack Away. :crying:
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand your post, especially the part where you say, "But on second thought after looking at your choice of cues, I'm just as glad".

I'm happy with those cues. If you don't like them, no problem. They suit my purposes just fine.

If you meant that you wouldn't want to work on that ebony cue because it came from Schmelke, so be it.

I've heard of cue snobbery before. Is your post an example of it?

Flex
 
Retail1LO

Retail1LO

Pass the sugar!!!
Silver Member
I keep waiting for a kind worded post from Arnot. *L* I don't supoose I should hold my breath.


Flex said:
Although I've looked at quite a few stack wraps, both online but especially on some beautiful cues, I have a question about how one would go about preparing the leather for a special "penetration style" wrap.

If I wanted to produce one that was totally special, with various colors that remain quite distinct, what is the best way to do that? Say tan in one area, deep red next to that, and black further down, with the colors alternating randomly.

Any suggestions?

Flex
Click to expand...

Flex said:
Tiger does a really nice job on wraps, but I'm just not willing to fork over $175 for a wrap that I can put on my cue for about $10.

I've done them before, and am going to do it again this time.

As you might surmise, I'm a do-it-yourselfer at times. This is one of those times.

So, any suggestions as to preparing the leather would be most appreciated. As this is being written, I'm testing my ideas out in this area and will know pretty soon if what I'm doing will work.

Just thought I'd seek help from the collected wisdom of cuemakers and others who post on AZ as to a good way to proceed.

Thanks for the suggestion about Tiger. Ryan at Mueller's also does nice work, at a reduced (but still too pricey for me) price.

Flex
Click to expand...

Arnot Wadsworth said:
If you can do it for $10.00 knock yourself out. If you have done it before you know it is worth a whole lot more than $10.00.

I think you have a lot of gall. First you tell us cuemakers our wraps are only worth $10.00 and then you ask for our help.:shocked: Dream on - learn the way we did; the hard way with no help from anybody.

You already know it all. :bash:
Click to expand...


The guy didn't say he had trouble installing a stacked leather wrap. He was simply asking anyone if they could provide him any kind of help on how to apply multiple colors. Furthermore, he merely stated that, seeing as how he can apply a stacked leather wrap himself, he can't justify sending it out elsewhere to be done for a much higher price. This gentleman SO didn't deserve your smart ass response.

I was under the impression that this place was designed as an information exchange between individuals doing something in common. Why are you being such an ass? He didn't say your wrap was only worth $10. He simply said it wasn't worth $175 to HIM, given the fact he can do it himself (minus the color variations).

Arnot Wadsworth said:
Dream on - learn the way we did; the hard way with no help from anybody
Click to expand...

This coming from a man who offers a course in custom cue building.

Talk about gall.

Once upon a time...I was seriously considering visiting you in Florida, and shelling out some serious bread for flight, hotel & accommodations, and tuition, so I could attend your cuemaking school. I already feel like I've invested too much in you. I'll never ever be able to recoup the time I just wasted on you here.
 
T

TellsItLikeItIs

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Retail1LO said:
I was under the impression that this place was designed as an information exchange between individuals doing something in common.
Click to expand...
I believe it was. You may want to ask Leonard Bludworth what the original idea was as he was instrumental in getting it started.

I understand the point Arnot is wanting to make. May not agree with the way he said it but hes a grown man and can speak for himself.

There is a line that can be crossed when it comes to sharing information. For some of the repair people here that line could be drawn where it effects their income.

If people were speaking one on one it might be different. Here a person is speaking to the entire internet world whether they realize it or not.
 
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
Arnot Wadsworth said:
Retail1LO said:
I keep waiting for a kind worded post from Arnot. *L* I don't supoose I should hold my breath.


I have made hundreds of kind post on RSB and AZ for over 14 years. I have helped hundreds of cuemakers over the years with their problems; many right here in AZ Billiards.

I do not like when the work of any cuemaker is reduced to the price of the materials and fails to take into consideration the investment in money, time, education, materials and supplies, overhead, insurance, taxes, labor, or the cost of electricity and water plus the price of a building to house it all in.

Sorry if you cannot see what I am talking about.

If and when you become a cuemaker you will understand better.

Good Cuemaking,
Click to expand...

Of course I can see what you are talking about. I understand about costs, and realize the true cost of something is not seen only in the cost of materials for a specific job.

I didn't reduce the value of anybody's work for a particular job to the cost of materials alone, but essentially said it wasn't worth it to me to spend $175 of my hard earned money to have a stack leather wrap installed, especially when the cost of materials to me is about $10. My labor is worth something; however the effort and trouble to make the wrap turn out beautifully is an extra special thing to me. Kind of like spit shining your own shoes. There's something special in that, and paying a shoe shine guy to do it isn't the same.

By the way, if there is anybody else reading this who wonders where to get the leather for a stack wrap, the best place to go is certainly Tiger, http://www.tigerproducts.com/store/product.php?productid=16148&cat=103&page=1 but if you want to take an alternate route, as I have already done four times, you can find some very nice leather calf skin leather lace, about 1mm thick, in various widths and colors right here:
http://www.leathercordusa.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LCU&Category_Code=C9 They also have belting lace and many other kinds of leather lacing.

If you buy the 25 meter spool in 4mm width, the cost including shipping is about $20. That spool will probably be enough to do three cues.

Works just fine.

Mr. Wadsworth knows, as I do, that installing a stack leather wrap is a lot of work, and time consuming. IMHO, doing it myself is a nice project, and yields a satisfactory result.
Click to expand...
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
Sorry, I would try to help if I could, but my ability to dye leather stops at one color. :D
 
Cuedog

Cuedog

CUE BALL INCOMING!!!
Silver Member
Flex said:
Although I've looked at quite a few stack wraps, both online but especially on some beautiful cues, I have a question about how one would go about preparing the leather for a special "penetration style" wrap.

If I wanted to produce one that was totally special, with various colors that remain quite distinct, what is the best way to do that? Say tan in one area, deep red next to that, and black further down, with the colors alternating randomly.

Any suggestions?

Flex
Click to expand...
The penetration leather is made exclusively by the people at Tiger as far as I know. Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel, I get all of the penetration colors I need, from Tiger. If you call them, Illia may be willing to help you out. They will also do custom colors within reason.

At a cost of $20.00 for the leather purchased outside of our industry, why not support the industry by at least purchasing the raw materials from within? Tiger will be a bit more for the same quantity, but is the quality comparable as well as time tested? Just curious.

Good luck.

Gene
 
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
Cuedog said:
The penetration leather is made exclusively by the people at Tiger as far as I know. Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel, I get all of the penetration colors I need, from Tiger. If you call them, Illia may be willing to help you out. They will also do custom colors within reason.

At a cost of $20.00 for the leather purchased outside of our industry, why not support the industry by at least purchasing the raw materials from within? Tiger will be a bit more for the same quantity, but is the quality comparable as well as time tested? Just curious.

Good luck.

Gene
Click to expand...


Last time I checked, buying just the stack leather from Tiger and nothing else, the cost was about $50 to do one cue. I haven't been able to find just the stack leather on their website recently.

Is the quality of the leather at leathercordusa the same or comparable? Depending on what one is looking for, it's different, I suppose. I've never used the Tiger stack leather, so I can't really say how they compare. As for whether or not the leather from leathercordusa stands up, who's to say? It's been on one of my cues for about 3 years, and seems to be doing fine. Doesn't look like there's any trouble with it...

It could well be that Tiger has a monopoly of sorts on the stack leather. If there is another supplier (besides Ryan at Muellers) I'm unaware of it.

If the market for stack leather were large enough, Tiger would probably have some competition.
 
ELBeau

ELBeau

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Atlas sells Tiger Stacked Wrap cord for $45 and states that it is enough to do 3 cues. I'd imagine you'd get the same price or better from Tiger.
Much better than $50 for the materials for one cue!
 
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
ELBeau said:
Atlas sells Tiger Stacked Wrap cord for $45 and states that it is enough to do 3 cues. I'd imagine you'd get the same price or better from Tiger.
Much better than $50 for the materials for one cue!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads-up!

I just sent a message to Tiger to see what's possible.

Flex
 
Retail1LO

Retail1LO

Pass the sugar!!!
Silver Member
Arnot Wadsworth said:
Retail1LO said:
I keep waiting for a kind worded post from Arnot. *L* I don't supoose I should hold my breath.


I have made hundreds of kind post on RSB and AZ for over 14 years. I have helped hundreds of cuemakers over the years with their problems; many right here in AZ Billiards.

I do not like when the work of any cuemaker is reduced to the price of the materials and fails to take into consideration the investment in money, time, education, materials and supplies, overhead, insurance, taxes, labor, or the cost of electricity and water plus the price of a building to house it all in.

Sorry if you cannot see what I am talking about.

If and when you become a cuemaker you will understand better.

Good Cuemaking,
Click to expand...

I apologize for my last post, Mr. Wadsworth...I do. I'm sorry...I just get touchy because theres just so much BS 'round here any more. I agree...materials are probably on the bottom of the totem pole as far as what makes up the price of any cue. It's just that...I think he was talking about a specific incident (the cost of him doing this wrap himself), versus the general cost of someone else doing it. I don't think he was even griping about the cost of having a stacked leather wrap done by a qualified, experienced, seasoned individual. I don't think the man was going out of his way to infer that cuemakers overcharge for the process.
Click to expand...
 
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
An update.

I've decided against a penetration style wrap for this cue, and will be going with a black stack leather one.

I appreciate the helpful and informative answers you all have been so kind to provide.

When the wrap is finished, I'll take some pictures and post them. By the way, taking a picture of something that is black, and getting a good result, isn't all that easy, but I'll do my best.

Flex
 
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