I agree. Not saying anyone is not truthful but I would love to see it.
2-ball Location in Rack When Using Template Rack for 9-Ball?
- Thread starter ChrisinNC
- Start date
I agree. Not saying anyone is not truthful but I would love to see it.
All valid points, Chris. No easy solution. Do what you Gotta do. Personally, I will always want balls spotted referencing the traditional spot NOT some other spot 3 7/8ths high. The traditional foot spot sits on two very understandable reference lines: center string and the second diamonds off the foot of the table (foot string I suppose).
Food for thought:
Nothing stops your players or any players across the country from playing privately on yours or any room owner's tables with 9-on-the-spot rules without the room owner’s knowledge. The one ball won’t be racked on any protectivd spot. It’s something for all room owners to consider, especially if 9-on-the-spot becomes the norm. Maybe other room owners have a solution. Maybe a new thread is in order.
Freddie <~~~ rethinking the rules
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If you are playing rack your own you should designate a spot for the 2 ball. Either the back ball (this is done because it hits the back rail and has to travel back through the pack and has a good chance for a collision) or one of the 2 balls behind the back ball (again for collisions to keep it down table). It doesn't always work like that but those seem to be the most unpredictable spots in my opinion.
When I say rack your own, most of the time I ha e the other balls in random spots, but I prefer to have the 2 ball as the second ball on the opposite side from where I am breaking. If it doesn't go cross side on the break it usually comes up table pretty consistantly with the 1 ball.
This is where I usually break dry and my opponent has an easier run out thanks to my rack skills.
See my disclaimer. 1
Me neither.
I meant to say I make one OR the other. I am however attempting to make them both. It was still probably a overstatement. I don't keep stats. But it's fairly easy to do at the new place that opened here in town. Something about the new tables and clean shiny balls.
My only point to the discussion was really it doesn't matter where you put the balls. The 2 ball position doesn't really matter.
Fred, a high spot is certainly needed for our bigger tournaments when using templates. As we have new balls and new templates, the balls rack perfectly tight every time. If they are racked in the traditional spot, an experienced player breaking from the side rail can make the wing ball nearly 100% of the time and make at least one additional ball (2 balls total) likely 60% of the time and 2 additional balls (3 balls total) at least 30% of the time. When I've experimented with the high rack, the wing ball can still be made, but it's certainly not automatic, and dry breaks are far more likely as well, which is far preferable for our tournaments.
Hey Chris, how far forward is new 1b spot from original? 9-on-spot is great idea. Should be everywhere imo.
I am not suggesting you get away from racking the 9-ball on the foot spot. Racking the 9-ball on the foot spot at this point is a pretty well-known option and all the reasons for doing it, as it is the norm in the Mosconi Cup (since 2007!).
What I am suggesting is that regardless of what you do with the Master Spot, a 9-ball illegally pocketed should be spotted on the foot spot (whether a physical spot is there or not).
I further am saying that when players not in any tournament setting decide to rack the 9-ball on the spot, they will be breaking without protection under the 9-ball if the Master Spot is on the traditional foot spot. It may come to be a real problem.
It seems like it's not clear to you what I'm saying, so I'll just quit.
Freddie <~~~ I think I'm clear
3 7/8th" is what Chris responded earlier.
Cool. Thanks.
Fred, I understand exactly what you're saying and I appreciate it. I don't see it becoming a problem in our room. Most all our play through the week is recreational / beginners / families, etc. Most of them don't even know what side of the table to rack the balls on let alone racking the 9-ball on the spot, even though the rack hook is on the foot end of the table, crosshairs are marked on the cloth, and a master spot is on the foot spot.
With a few exeptions, our regular higher skill level tournament players show up on Monday nights and once a month on Sundays, and otherwise they rarely come in to practice - and they wonder why they don't get any better!
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+1
I've played a few tournaments where the 2 goes in the back, either regular rack
or template rack.
Yes, 3 7/8" is correct to the nearest eighth of an inch. If the balls are a full 2¼" in diameter, the actual distance is about 22 thousandths of an inch more than that. 3.9" is good to the nearest tenth of an inch. 99 millimeters is also a good figure to use.
(Stick "tan(60 degrees)*2.25" into google search if a more exact value is needed.:smile
In one of the Mosconi Cups the balls were racked half of that ahead by agreement of the two teams, IIRC. That would be with the second row even with the spot rather than the third (9-ball) row.
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Should there be a WPA rule on this as an option? I'd like there to be, but it's totally confusing.
I'm good with moving the spot, and spotting on that spot for illegal 9-ball. But 3 7/8ths vs whatever is in between.... no idea.
Freddie <~~~ even more confused
The only official option that the WPA had so far as I know was racking the 9 on the spot. I have heard that rule had passed out of its trial period and had been discarded, but I'm not sure. I could find no mention of the nine-on-the-spot rule on the WPA website.
OK so here is my idea for an invention that can be used in a new game called...Random Rotation. Though I thought this up myself, I have no doubt many before me have thought of this.
Basically, Random Rotation works exactly the same as all your other rotation games (eg. 9-ball) except that the order in which the balls become the object ball is randomly chosen immediately AFTER the break shot. The 1-ball is always the first ball in rotation and is racked in its normal spot. The game winning ball (eg. 9-ball) is always the last ball in rotation and is racked in its normal spot. All other balls can be placed however the person racking chooses.
After breaking the rack, a pea bottle with all the other balls in it is shaken and poured out (see picture). The order of those balls determines the order of the rotation.
This would not change the essence of the rotation game at all, and it would totally remove any possibility of an advantage by pattern racking.
Basically, Random Rotation works exactly the same as all your other rotation games (eg. 9-ball) except that the order in which the balls become the object ball is randomly chosen immediately AFTER the break shot. The 1-ball is always the first ball in rotation and is racked in its normal spot. The game winning ball (eg. 9-ball) is always the last ball in rotation and is racked in its normal spot. All other balls can be placed however the person racking chooses.
After breaking the rack, a pea bottle with all the other balls in it is shaken and poured out (see picture). The order of those balls determines the order of the rotation.
This would not change the essence of the rotation game at all, and it would totally remove any possibility of an advantage by pattern racking.
Even better: don't draw each pea until it is time to shoot a shot. You never know which ball you should play position for. If you miss a ball, the pea goes back into the bottle and your opponent gets a new one. Lots more strategy.