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Patrick Johnson
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Yesterday, 05:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
... pool scientists say ... the soft skin on your hand gives a little and "disconnects" your hand from the impact with the CB, despite gripping tightly.
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Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I'm a little skeptical about the 'soft skin' thing. Has that actually been proven or is it more of a theory?
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Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I'm interested to know that, too. I've heard that idea floating around but is it really anything more than an idea?
On Dr. Dave's resource page on "effects of light vs. tight grip" he says:

"Can grip pressure affect the cue ball during tip contact? The short answer is: No. ... Bottom line: The CB is long gone before any "flesh effects" can be "felt" by the tip."

He does allow that a very tight grip might increase CB speed some, probably at some cost to accuracy. He also mentions the possibility that tightening the grip during the stroke could add wrist movement that increases speed - an actual technique used by some. If there's a real difference I lean toward this explanation (see Fran's description of "tightening on impact").

Dave has a high speed video of the hand/cue during impact, but the link to it on his page is broken. Maybe he'll see this and give us a better link.

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; Yesterday at 06:31 PM.
  
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Dan White
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Yesterday, 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
On Dr. Dave's resource page on "effects of light vs. tight grip" he says:

"Can grip pressure affect the cue ball during tip contact? The short answer is: No. ... Bottom line: The CB is long gone before any "flesh effects" can be "felt" by the tip."

He does allow that a very tight grip might increase CB speed some, probably at some cost to accuracy. He also mentions the possibility that tightening the grip during the stroke could add wrist movement that increases speed - an actual technique used by some. If there's a real difference I lean toward this explanation (see Fran's description of "tightening on impact").

Dave has a high speed video of the hand/cue during impact, but the link to it on his page is broken. Maybe he'll see this and give us a better link.

pj
chgo
I'm a big fan of Dave's work but I'm not convinced by the information on his site. (That video of the hand works for me but I'm not sure what the purpose of the video is). All I really see is the comment that a tighter grip doesn't matter because the contact time is so short. That's not really proof of anything. It's just a guess. On the other hand, I do see at least a technical explanation as to why the bridge hand cannot matter, having to do with the time it takes for vibrations to reach the bridge hand and so on.

Of course whether a tight grip does anything different during tip contact is an entirely different question compared to whether tightening the grip might cause you to hit the ball in a different way re speed, english and so on. In other words, body mechanics change with a tight grip and that probably means you will hit the cue ball differently in some ways as a result.

I think this one needs to be "fleshed out" a bit more.


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Bob Jewett
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Yesterday, 06:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I'm interested to know that, too. I've heard that idea floating around but is it really anything more than an idea? I wonder if something like Digicue can provide numbers that would show differences between a tight vs loose grip.
Yes, there is data, but not with a variety of grips. The result is that the spring constant (force per unit distance of compression/expansion) of a typical grip is 1/100th of the tip-ball spring constant.That means that while the hand can exert a small influence during the shot, the flesh of the hand is "wound up" only a small fraction of the way by the time the ball leaves the tip.

This info was first extracted from the Jacksonville Experiment videos and was published in Billiards Digest in 1999. Here is a link to three related articles http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/jax_bd150.pdf including the measurement of hand response vs. tip response. It would have been nice to have an accelerometer on the cue as well and there are other results that have been published with accelerometer data.

But the net minor effect of a tight grip is that the cue stick will play very slightly heavier than using a very light grip. I think that is not worth changing your fundamentals. Perhaps Pat Fleming's slip-on shaft weight tube is a better way to get a heavier stick temporarily.


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Yesterday, 07:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Yes, there is data, but not with a variety of grips. The result is that the spring constant (force per unit distance of compression/expansion) of a typical grip is 1/100th of the tip-ball spring constant.That means that while the hand can exert a small influence during the shot, the flesh of the hand is "wound up" only a small fraction of the way by the time the ball leaves the tip.

This info was first extracted from the Jacksonville Experiment videos and was published in Billiards Digest in 1999. Here is a link to three related articles http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/jax_bd150.pdf including the measurement of hand response vs. tip response. It would have been nice to have an accelerometer on the cue as well and there are other results that have been published with accelerometer data.

But the net minor effect of a tight grip is that the cue stick will play very slightly heavier than using a very light grip. I think that is not worth changing your fundamentals. Perhaps Pat Fleming's slip-on shaft weight tube is a better way to get a heavier stick temporarily.
Thanks, Bob. I'll take a look at those links.


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