The existence of a women division in some tournaments

There's only a couple of top Asian women players that would have a chance against the top pro men. This is a fact and I think the reason is, not as many women plays pool so the chances of having female pro players be as good as pro men players is pretty slim. this is the same concept as when you have a city with a high population you will have a higher percentage of crime rates and a city with a very low population will have almost no crime rate at all.

That being said, I've seen some of the top asian women in the world play better than most men.

I recently asked that same question to a Hall of Fame canidate. This is generally true until you start getting to the top. The strength of the men's break is one of the biggest obstacles. Gives the men a tremendous advantage in staying at the table.

"Women don't have the kill in them"?????
Better check out some women's MMA matches!!haha

tedantle said:

I recently asked that same question to a Hall of Fame canidate. This is generally true until you start getting to the top. The strength of the men's break is one of the biggest obstacles. Gives the men a tremendous advantage in staying at the table.

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They can't hit the ball 10mph like Corey and other pros do when using a template rack? The break does not take that much strength to execute properly even with a regular rack in use, but I do see quite a lot of the women that just don't know how to break with the right timing of the movement. They move forward with the body too soon or too late and end up doing more harm then good.

I would bet that if you gave the average woman player ball in hand without the break, just spread them around with no clusters, she would not run out nearly as many balls as the average male player, I'd say in 9 ball there would be a 2-3 ball average difference.

Why? Same reasons as in the other 20 threads Maybe. On the core of it, it's a combination of 10 different possible things.

hang-the-9 said:

They can't hit the ball 10mph like Corey and other pros do when using a template rack? The break does not take that much strength to execute properly even with a regular rack in use, but I do see quite a lot of the women that just don't know how to break with the right timing of the movement. They move forward with the body too soon or too late and end up doing more harm then good.

I would bet that if you gave the average woman player ball in hand without the break, just spread them around with no clusters, she would not run out nearly as many balls as the average male player, I'd say in 9 ball there would be a 2-3 ball average difference.

Why? Same reasons as in the other 20 threads Maybe. On the core of it, it's a combination of 10 different possible things.

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This doesn't apply to the very top asian female players. Most of them have surpassed a lot of male pros.

sebroy9 said:

This doesn't apply to the very top asian female players. Most of them have surpassed a lot of male pros.

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Yes, a few of the women can break very well. I say that they "play like men" LOL

When I first saw Ga Young play, first thing I noticed is how similar to the male players her break, stroke and position play was, and you can see how dominating she is vs. most women players. Even Allison and Karen with the their ability do not have quite the same type of hit, they pocket balls well and play position well which makes them win, but their game does not bring to mind a "male" style of play. Hope that makes sense.

I think tournaments should allow women to play Pool with the men, in the competitive arena. We could give it a try & see what happens. If we have a few bad starts, men & women will know to bring their A game next time.

I think Trudeau tried that with his 8 Ball stuff and power in the Break Shot reared it's ugly, so Mike Segel said. I'm ready to compete with man, woman or child... heck there are some kids out there that will mop the floor with most.. how about Brendan Crockett..?

Sounds good to me....

Alex plays just fine and he is smaller then most women players, so size can't be the only factor. What we do need to do is stop "lowering the bar" every time a female wants to jump in with the men in any activity. It's not fair to them.

Just treat every one equal and see what happens. Let the men play in women's events and women play in men's events. Try that for every thing, pool, boxing, cage fighting, running, weight lifting, basket ball, swimming, etc. It's what the world wants. Just don't "lower the bar" in order to make it happen.

I know who I'm betting on...........

Ak Guy said:

Alex plays just fine and he is smaller then most women players, so size can't be the only factor. What we do need to do is stop "lowering the bar" every time a female wants to jump in with the men in any activity. It's not fair to them.

Just treat every one equal and see what happens. Let the men play in women's events and women play in men's events. Try that for every thing, pool, boxing, cage fighting, running, weight lifting, basket ball, swimming, etc. It's what the world wants. Just don't "lower the bar" in order to make it happen.

I know who I'm betting on...........

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Women can and some do play in men's/open events. I don't think men are permitted to play in women's events. I think men overall play better but I've never really understood why. There are a number of top female professionals that are considered professional in open events. I think a lot of it has to do with the shear number of serious players... Men far outnumber women.

SamLambert said:

The existence of a women division in some tournaments

Why does it exist? ...

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The fundamental reason for having separate sporting events for young people, old people, and women (and other classifications in some sports) is that people in these classifications typically perform at an inferior level compared to adult males who are not yet seniors. If the young, the old, and females did not have their own events, these people would be unable to win much of anything in the sports world. They are in "protected" classes so they can compete with similar people.

But at the highest level in most sports, the events are, and should be, open to any human being capable of competing at that level.

In the amateur golf world, for example, the U.S. Golf Association sponsors these six events (and some others) -- one for junior females, one for juniors as a whole, one for senior women, one for seniors as a whole, one for women of any age, and one for human beings of any age or sex. This last event is the U.S. Amateur, open to anyone who qualifies. And if a senior woman was good enough, she could play in both of the senior events and both of the adult (but-not-yet-senior) events. In fact, if this same senior woman was good enough to qualify, she could also play in the U.S. Open (amateurs and pros).

In pool, we see the same sort of thing -- events for juniors, or women, or "Class B" players, or wheelchair players, etc. These groups need to be protected in this way, because most of their players would be completely uncompetitive in open events. But if people in these classes are good enough, they can also try to compete at the highest level in truly open events, which, of course, are currently dominated by adult males.

Perhaps someday women pool players won't need their own tour. But in the meantime, it's a real pleasure to see a few of them able to compete with the top men. And to argue that the top men should therefore be eligible to compete in women's events is just ludicrous.

[Repeated from years past.]

sebroy9 said:

... the reason is, not as many women plays pool so the chances of having female pro players be as good as pro men players is pretty slim. this is the same concept as when you have a city with a high population you will have a higher percentage of crime rates and a city with a very low population will have almost no crime rate at all.

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I think this is at least most of the answer. Some years ago Mike Page said it's like the top players in the country vs. the top players in a random town. The pool of men players is dramatically larger.

pj
chgo

SamLambert said:

Why does it exist?

It is easy to understand for physical sports, such as hockey, but why does it exist in billiards? As far as I know, women can perform just as well as men. Is it tradition? If so, it seems kinda weird carrying it on.

Is there something I am missing?

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The women should have a chance to win something.. How can you not see that the men play a totally different game than the women?? The physical-ness of the game has nothing to do with it. Just look around at your coed pool league, or maybe watch some mens A-player CRUSH a top female pro. There comes a point when you have to just simply watch the game.

There's a reason why the Korr's and Lee's and Fisher's never devoted their full time to the mens game. They wanted to make a living. The excuse of the participation ratio between men and women is utter nonsense. There could be an equal number of women participating and they'd still play an inferior game. Why? Who knows. Some things just are. There's comes a point when giving a pc answer does not suffice because it's an easy answer from people avoiding a simple truth.

Welcome to forum, and IMO it is a threefold answer.
1) origonally out of necessity - women WERE NOT ALOUD TO PLAY WITH THE MEN USUALLY - as in a time long ago before women could even vote.
2) two and three kinda go together. Out of tradition, its what everyone knew and it worked.
3) marketing - as mentioned the women are wildly more successful with the marketing than the men. No one really likes to whatch pool on TV ( except some of us hardcore guys on AZ, BUT EVERYONE LOVES TO watch some beautiful T&A bending over a pool table right?
Now, if I have not stepped in it as of yet - standby!
Now everyone listen please, pay special attention to this first line cause this is the one most seem to miss before going off lol,
IMHO , this is in no way a blanket statement meant to mean everyone everywhere but with the exception of a handful of women that are them true women elite players, with all things else equal generally women can't hang with there male counterparts.
Good night guys

Ak Guy said:

Alex plays just fine and he is smaller then most women players, so size can't be the only factor. What we do need to do is stop "lowering the bar" every time a female wants to jump in with the men in any activity. It's not fair to them.

Just treat every one equal and see what happens. Let the men play in women's events and women play in men's events. Try that for every thing, pool, boxing, cage fighting, running, weight lifting, basket ball, swimming, etc. It's what the world wants. Just don't "lower the bar" in order to make it happen.

I know who I'm betting on...........

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AHA.... "lowering the bar".... isn't that what we are doing, when we relegate to Alternating Breaks. Don't we do that to restrict someone making up a "6 Pack" & more than likely winning the Match.

You don't stop the players in a 14:1 game, when the rack is to be busted up again, why that would make it real easy for some to keep up.

It makes no difference to me how the tournaments are formatted. Twisting it here & there, so we have more participants, is what we do. I don't play in tournaments with long races anymore, I don't have the stamina, but wait... I'm 73

The quote above says the world wants women to compete in every way. While Suzie ain't going very far with Evander Hollyfield, you & I might have a problem getting a job that Suzie wants. After all, Suzie is drop dead knockout with more moves than a Roadie puts on a Shortstop. In the raw, most men might be asked to leave the building, while the executives hire the top bunch of beauties.

That ain't playing fair, is it...? Who do you know that plays fair.

When the women were playing lots of tournaments, some were running several racks, a feat that some men cannot do. But they were in training & they trained hard to win the cash.

Sign 'em up, let's play POOL.

Try to understand the path many of these great men pool players take on their way to greatness. Where are they at various stages of their development? What are they doing? Can you see now why that path isn't so appealing to most women? Can you understand why most women aren't willing to go that extra mile to play at that level?

Who the heck wants that kind of a life?

It's the "smaller pool" thing

FranCrimi said:

Try to understand the path many of these great men pool players take on their way to greatness. Where are they at various stages of their development? What are they doing? Can you see now why that path isn't so appealing to most women? Can you understand why most women aren't willing to go that extra mile to play at that level?

Who the heck wants that kind of a life?

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That's a factor in the "smaller pool" phenomenon - another is the historical image of pool as "not gentile enough for women" - yet another is the fact that women are less interested in sports in general, especially at young ages when top athletes are beginning to develop.

pj
chgo

I think you hit the nail on the head. I played Karen Corr last Turning Stone and she beat me like a drum. It's great the girls are playing and they should be in with the men. Consolidate all the competition and the money.

mymosconi said:

I think you hit the nail on the head. I played Karen Corr last Turning Stone and she beat me like a drum. It's great the girls are playing and they should be in with the men. Consolidate all the competition and the money.

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Please read post #30 and see if you still feel the same way.

mymosconi said:

I think you hit the nail on the head. I played Karen Corr last Turning Stone and she beat me like a drum. It's great the girls are playing and they should be in with the men. Consolidate all the competition and the money.

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One of the reasons why the top females have been high profile has been because of earnings, like Fisher in her heyday, and she would never have had an audience to appreciate her talents if the women and men combined because she would simply have not won. She would have been hilited on tv because she's a FEMALE(and I doubt that would have been the way to go for her brand), but after continually losing she would've disappeared. She never cut it when she played mens snooker. Why would it be any different in the USA. It would be like women and men running the 100m. The top female would not have a celebrity presence if she continually placed last.

Patrick Johnson said:

That's a factor in the "smaller pool" phenomenon - another is the historical image of pool as "not gentile enough for women" - yet another is the fact that women are less interested in sports in general, especially at young ages when top athletes are beginning to develop.

pj
chgo

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You seem to speak of 'image' as if it's an illusion. It's not an illusion. It's real, and to most women and many men, it's just not worth devoting your life to, which is what you have to do in order to excel at such a high level.

Just read all the posts here where people are griping about the cheaters, the woofers, the con artists, the guy who never shuts up and so-on. The list is endless. This is in the very same environment that women need to be in, in order to excel. And you all wonder why there aren't as many who manage to survive it? Seriously? It's a no-brainer.

Who needs it?