BCA rule question. Non player says " ball in h and"

DCS_SF

DCS_SF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I just won my match, but during play we had an interesting situation.

A non player (the bar owner) walked by the table and unsolicited said "that's ball in hand hand right?" And I said "no it's not". The other team called non player coaching and rather than argue I said fine ball in hand. I won the game, but I'm still up in the air on whether that is considered coaching. We weren't being sticklers for rules either so it was out of the blue.

What say you? What do the rules say?
 
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S

Shotcy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That sounds bananas. I'm not aware of giving ball in hand when you get a coach that you shouldn't. Is the owner saying "ball and hand" a coach? Its a question. If the bar owner isn't in league that night and just a observer I can't see you getting penalized for that. Not totally sure, sounds funky to me.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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The situation is not clear. Did you just shoot a shot that had a close hit or get a close rail? Or was the owner's comment about your opponent's shot?

I imagine the CSI rules cover who may call a foul during a game. I think they're available on the CSI web site.
 
QuietStorm

QuietStorm

AzB Silver Member
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It's usually up to the shooter to determine the legitimacy of the shot, if no one's been called to observe the shot. If the shooter has doubts, then the call usually falls to the captain.

Was the bartender called prior to the shot? If not, then that bartender has no business interfering with the game. I've never heard of non-player coaching. It defeats the purpose of playing a team game. It wouldn't be fair to my opponent if I call over a house pro who's not playing in my team for advice.
 
Celophanewrap

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
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That's kinda crap. It's a bar, and drunk can shout anything at the table.
This person's gonna say that's non player coaching every time?
I'd have a buddy sit next to the table and every time their player was about to shoot I'd have him say something about the shot - "NON PLAYER COACHING"!
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
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Yeah, the first thing is the bar owner is a moron for becoming involved whether he was part of the match or not, you dont get involved with a game unless you are asked. But I dont think that a person on the sidelines decides to try to take part in the decision making during the match can be viewed as coaching. If that is considered coaching every time we are playing next to a team ahead of us in the standings I will be running a nonstop coaching commentary to make sure they lose all their games. :shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug:
 
KRJ

KRJ

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DCS_SF said:
So I just won my match, but during play we had an interesting situation.

A non player (the bar owner) walked by the table and unsolicited said "that's ball in hand hand right?" And I said "no it's not". The other team called non player coaching and rather than argue I said fine ball in hand. I won the game, but I'm still up in the air on whether that is considered coaching. We weren't being sticklers for rules either so it was out of the blue.

What say you? What do the rules say?
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Actually, the bar owner was "coaching" the other team, not you. He wanted to give them BIH and you said no. He was helping them, not you. So, you should have gotten BIH.

Of course, the entire thing is stupid and I can't stop the owner from sticking his nose in, so it's no harm, no foul with anyone with common sense.
 
strmanglr scott

strmanglr scott

All about Focus
Silver Member
That's horseshat.

How does a player control what random ppl say in a bar?

Anyone on our bca team can call foul anytime, it's not coaching.

I'd say the bartender is a back up sub for the team.

Sounds like the team your playing is in desperation mode.
 
S

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First, I am not sure how any person that is not involved in the match can cause a BIH for another player in an unsolicited statement/question/comment, period.

Second, any player or team that would force someone to give up BIH because some unsolicited advice/question/statement came flying out of some chumps mouth is probably a questionable player to begin with.

Third a coach is advising the shooter how to play the table. Asking a question, is not such.

Any league that has that as a rule should consider the shear stupidity being you can't control anyone around you. The person causing the infraction can be told by everyone to pipe down and should be told just that.

As always there will be clowns that try to take advantage of this rule from both sides. If a team/player is allowing this without saying anything then penalize them. But if it is the first time someone has said anything, then just tell the person to pipe down.
 
gypsy_soul

gypsy_soul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DCS_SF said:
So I just won my match, but during play we had an interesting situation.

A non player (the bar owner) walked by the table and unsolicited said "that's ball in hand hand right?" And I said "no it's not". The other team called non player coaching and rather than argue I said fine ball in hand. I won the game, but I'm still up in the air on whether that is considered coaching. We weren't being sticklers for rules either so it was out of the blue.

What say you? What do the rules say?
Click to expand...

Forget the rules...Just send a good player in the bar next week to beat the owner out of a few Thousand !!!! Those are the real rules !
 
jimmyco

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
I do not know the rules for non-player interference, but curious as to the foul the owner thought he witnessed.
 
BRussell

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like the highlighted parts (#3) below would apply.

1-41 Coaching
1. During your match, it is a foul if you ask for, or intentionally receive, assistance in planning or executing any shot.
2. It is a foul if you receive unsolicited assistance from a spectator associated with you (e.g., spouse/partner, relative, teammate). “Assistance” includes being alerted to an opponent’s foul.
3. If you are not aware of an opponent’s foul, and you are alerted to the foul by unsolicited information from a spectator not associated with you, the foul is not enforceable but you do not incur any additional penalty.
Click to expand...
 
DCS_SF

DCS_SF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BRussell said:
Sounds like the highlighted parts (#3) below would apply.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that seems definitely appropriate.

I talked with them after the match and said I thought it was BS. The person on the sidelines who called the foul agreed he was wrong after he tried to pull up the rule he though he was calling. He said that it had been called on them and I said well how did you feel about it when that happened? He said he thought it was BS, and I was like yeah it was. Then I said I am not mad, but we have been having a good time what did we do to make you to be such a stickler, and especially on something you thought was crappy when it was done to you. They apologized.

To clarify some of the questions above. The owner was talking about the other players shot. I am not sure what he thought he saw, but the other player hit his object ball and pocketed one of my balls. He said isn't that ball in hand, and I said no.

Either way I ended up having a great night. 4-0 with a table run. Haha.
 
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Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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DCS_SF said:
... The owner was talking about the other players shot. I am not sure what he thought he saw, but the other player hit his object ball and pocketed one of my balls. He said isn't that ball in hand, and I said no.
...
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Unbelievable. Someone butts in, calls a foul on your opponent, you tell him he's wrong and there was no foul, and someone wants to call a foul on you for that. A great item for the next "What's wrong with pool in the US?" thread.
 
DCS_SF

DCS_SF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
Unbelievable. Someone butts in, calls a foul on your opponent, you tell him he's wrong and there was no foul, and someone wants to call a foul on you for that. A great item for the next "What's wrong with pool in the US?" thread.
Click to expand...

Yep. I was dumbfounded. I started to protest but it quickly became clear they were being irrational. I find it best to not argue and wanted to just keep the match going since it was late. If my opponent was better or this was a more important match I probably wouldn't have relented.

He did run down to the 8 and I was pissed. He missed though and I cleared the table.
 
M

Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
DCS_SF said:
Yep. I was dumbfounded. I started to protest but it quickly became clear they were being irrational. I find it best to not argue and wanted to just keep the match going since it was late. If my opponent was better or this was a more important match I probably wouldn't have relented.

He did run down to the 8 and I was pissed. He missed though and I cleared the table.
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Just call them on poor sportsmanship and tell them they forfeit the match.
 
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