Bracketology: Double Elimination Changing to Single Elimination w/ Final 16

FeelDaShot · Apr 23, 2019

I don't quite understand much of what you said so you'll have to elaborate a lot and probably attached a bracket of your own for reference. See notes below:

APA Operator said:
Who would stack brackets like that and make them one bracket?

That's how proper bracket seeding is done in any seeded event. Whether it's pool or not. Not sure what you have an issue with?

APA Operator said:
If I ran that bracket, the finishing places would be:

First Place --------------- #1
Second Place ----------- #9
Third Place -------------- #2
Fourth Place ------------ #3 & #4
Sixth Place -------------- #5, #6, #7, #8
Tenth Place ------------- #10
Eleventh Place --------- #11 & #12
Thirteenth Place ------- #13, #14, #15, #16

I don't understand. It looks like you just copied and pasted the seeding results from my post?

APA Operator said:
In other words, anyone who gets knocked out in the one-loss side finishes lower than everyone who gets knocked out on the winner's side, and all payouts go to those knocked out on the winner's side.

I still don't understand. Everyone on the loser's side doesn't get paid? Why even have them in the tournament anymore if they can't win anything?

APA Operator said:
APA uses modified single elimination brackets, meaning a single-elimination bracket modified so that there are no one-and-dones. That's so that people don't travel possibly hundreds or thousands of miles just to get knocked out in their first match. This is a modified double elimination bracket, meaning double elimination modified to shorten the tournament. Match-wise, they are equivalent, but terminology-wise they are not. In modified double, something has been taken away, while in modified single, something has been added.

Why use a modified single elimination bracket instead of a double elimination bracket? The only reason is that it's faster. In this case, three or four rounds faster, at an hour or more per round. In a team event, where each round could be five hours, the time difference is measured in DAYS.

Sounds like modified single elimination and modified double elimination are the same? If not, please post a bracket so I understand what you're trying to say.

APA Operator said:
One more thing - a redraw in the middle of a tournament increases the chances that opponents could meet for a second time earlier than they otherwise would. In this case, the #1 seed could beat #16 in match 25, then lose to them in the next round.

I totally agree with this. This is a major problem with random redraws.

sbpoolleague · Apr 23, 2019

APA Operator said:
In modified double, something has been taken away, while in modified single, something has been added.

Start with an empty glass, add water, GLASS HALF FULL
Start with a full glass, remove water, GLASS HALF EMPTY

There is nothing different between modified single and double elimination brackets.
Just two different terms for the same bracket.

My league uses these mod brackets all the time in order to finish tourneys at a reasonable hour.
Since the players on the winners side kinda get screwed (by losing a loss), we usually rewards those players with a little extra money (about 2-3% of pot).

APA Operator · Apr 26, 2019

sbpoolleague said:
Start with an empty glass, add water, GLASS HALF FULL
Start with a full glass, remove water, GLASS HALF EMPTY

There is nothing different between modified single and double elimination brackets.
Just two different terms for the same bracket.

I think that's pretty much what I said. If you call it modified double elimination, players hear the words "double elimination" and are surprised when they are out after one loss. Sometimes the words are important.

Take your glass/water example, for instance. My glass is empty, I turn around, and I have half a glass of water. My glass is full, I turn around, and I have half a glass of water. One is a pleasant surprise and one is not.

APA Operator · Apr 26, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
That's how proper bracket seeding is done in any seeded event. Whether it's pool or not. Not sure what you have an issue with?

...

I don't understand. It looks like you just copied and pasted the seeding results from my post?

It's nothing like yours. Only first, second, and thirteenth place are the same.

FeelDaShot said:
I still don't understand. Everyone on the loser's side doesn't get paid? Why even have them in the tournament anymore if they can't win anything?

They can get paid. They just can't get paid more than the players who get knocked out on the winner's side. Otherwise, there's an incentive to lose and dodge a monster player.

FeelDaShot said:
Sounds like modified single elimination and modified double elimination are the same? If not, please post a bracket so I understand what you're trying to say.

That's what I said. But I think it's important to use the words that set the expectations you want to set.

APA Operator · Apr 26, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
That's how proper bracket seeding is done in any seeded event. Whether it's pool or not. Not sure what you have an issue with?

After re-reading your reply, I think you got confused by my use of the word "stack". I wasn't referring to seeding, I was referring to the physical way the winner's bracket and loser's bracket were "stacked" and finishing places determined as if it was one single-elimination bracket.

Bracketology: Double Elimination Changing to Single Elimination w/ Final 16

FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member

sbpoolleague

AzB Silver Member

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member

APA Operator

AzB Silver Member