just a lil rant

Every time the word apa is mentioned on here people come out of the woodwork bashing the organization about it being full of sandbaggers. I always reply that sandbaggers are in ever league and if proper scorekeeping is utilized it would cut down on the number of players that are under handicapped.

I happen to like apa and am a big supporter of their efforts to curb sandbagging. I have stressed to every one on my team that keeps score to always mark defensive shots. I cannot control how other teams keep score but I thought I could control my people ....until this weekend.

Last night we played a new team that had several new players. I wound up playing 8 ball vs a woman who started out as a 3. It quickly became obvious this woman is definitely better than a 3. She had a half dozen well played safes and several 2 way shots that were well beyond and legit apa 3. I did however manage to win 4-0 in a 4-2 race due to some well played safes myself.after my match was over I grabbed the scoresheet to look it over and determine who to throw next. I was surprised to see not a single safe marked for her or myself. lets just say I let him know I was not a happy camper and I marked all the safes myself. Later on I lectured the whole team about what transpired on the scoresheet and told them that I always hear complaining from them about this persons or that persons handicap and that they and every one else that fails to mark safes is the root cause of someone being under handicapped.

Today at our 8 ball best of the rest tournament the same damn thing happened again. I was in a knock down drag out fight to win 4-1 in a 4-3 race. This 4 played 10 safes on me and only 2 were marked. Lemme just say I was livid and went off telling the scorekeeper that opponent is playing like a 5...same as me and yet I am spotting him a rack in a match where the outcome could mean the difference in our team going to ltc's ...or not.

I gotta get my players out if being so damn lazy or inattentive or whatever their problem is. I know a lot if tens dont bother marking safes but i am trying to make sure my team is not one of them.

Rant over...back to regularly scheduled what the best chalk etc.

HawaiianEye said:

The whole APA thing is a joke.

When you have people who are 3s keeping score and don't even know what a safe is, how do you expect them to know when a 3 on the table is playing a safe?

In order for someone to actually "determine" if a player is playing safe, the player should have to announce before they shoot.

The whole APA is mostly BANGERS. From what I've seen over the years, nobody even tries to teach anybody anything for the most part.

It is a social club where bangers get together to discuss how their LD shaft works so well and they can't run two balls. That, and standing around in the way between tables and drinking beer and bullshitting.

That's my rant.

If the APA were actually attempting to make people "pool players", they would have free weekly clinics where the supposed "pool players" in the league would instruct them.

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I will admit you have described some members of apa....and damn near every other league out there also. Yet there are an untold number that are exactly the opposite.

I have 2 teams and no one drinks on me team and 2 on the other have a few drinks. I have seen my lo ban a few drunks. You would be surprised at how many could run more than 2 balls. Its not that hard to determine the intent of the shooter....offense or defense.....simple as that.

The apa has a you tube channel with several instructors such as tom rossman and Mitch ellerman for those so inclined to learn to improve. It also has a video for determining what a defensive shot is.

The apa seems to have steps in place to address every thing negative that you mentioned. I do realize amateur leagues are not for every one but they do help keep venues open so every one who wishes can enjoy the game.

gypsy_soul said:

Wow all that over league play .... Did you even go to Vegas for APA ? Please tell me you made it.

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Yea I made it to Vegas once but that is not what my post is about. My rant is over people not using what apa has put it in place properly to ensure accurate skill levels.

Its not just about me but my entire team sufferes the consequences if I am spotting some one who i should be playing even.

As for me personally .....i am not afraid to play any one even . I joined masters as a 4 and played the best in town even up in a race to 7. Sure I tool my lumps when I first started but over time I managed to win a rack here and there and then worked my way up to winning matches.on any given night.

To me ....winning a handicapped match by 3-4 in a 3-5 race vs a 7 is no big deal. Winning an even race to 7 vs the best in town is a big deal to me...being a 5/6.


Playing in a team tournament where every one on the team is relying on you to win a match spotting a player you should be playing even is a big deal to me. But I guess anyone who has never played on a team could understand the difference..

HawaiianEye said:

How about a two-way shot?

If a person shoots and misses, is it offensive or defensive?

It is offense if he makes it.

Is it defense if he misses it and hooks you?

In pool, I think you should have to call every shot, but I'm in the minority. I don't think you should have to call kisses, off the rail, etc...but you should call the pocket. I will play it as "technical" as you want, but it isn't necessary.

I keep asking people to play "next ball", but nobody wants to play that.

You have to call the ball and pocket for your current shot and the ball and pocket for your next shot before you shoot. If you make the first shot and screw up your position for the second shot, you still have to go for the hole you originally called or play a safe. You aren't allowed to shoot it into another hole or pocket another ball.

That teaches you cue ball control or you get your ass kicked in a hurry.

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I am well aware of a 2 way shot and even mentioned it in my op. I always give the shooter the benefit of the doubt. I only mark obvious safties.

I like to think I have high moral standards. I dont believe in hustling....sharking.....dumping....sandbagging .....and not marking a scoresheet properly. If other teams or players choose to do that so be it but I expect my team mates to do their part to ensure every thing is marked and that is what my rant was about.

Yea I like apa....for what it is. Just because I play apa does not mean I dont care about improving or playing my best everytime.

It does not bother me to play by any rules....as long as my opponent knows the rules also. I have played bcapl.....Napa....tap and usapl. As you can see ...i don't have a problem playing by call shot rules....having played in bars most of my life i actually prefer them . However if i want to play pool in a competitive environment with a team I am limited to apa and thus I make the most of it.

I guess my rant is due to I expect my team mates to have the same standards I do.

HawaiianEye said:

How about a two-way shot?

If a person shoots and misses, is it offensive or defensive?

It is offense if he makes it.

Is it defense if he misses it and hooks you?

In pool, I think you should have to call every shot, but I'm in the minority. I don't think you should have to call kisses, off the rail, etc...but you should call the pocket. I will play it as "technical" as you want, but it isn't necessary.

I keep asking people to play "next ball", but nobody wants to play that.

You have to call the ball and pocket for your current shot and the ball and pocket for your next shot before you shoot. If you make the first shot and screw up your position for the second shot, you still have to go for the hole you originally called or play a safe. You aren't allowed to shoot it into another hole or pocket another ball.

That teaches you cue ball control or you get your ass kicked in a hurry.

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hang-the-9 said:

Using safes and innings as a way to rank players is just begging for players to mess with the system. Don't know who thought of the fact that only good players can try to play a safe, any D and C player that learns how to play pool should know what a safe is. It's like telling basketball players they are pros and can't play at the YMCA team because they know what a 3 point shot is and try to shoot it. APA rules always sounds like someone tried to mix bar rules with the world standard rules because they thought their players were to dumb to understand things. All the time I hear "we are not pros" when I try to explain real pool rules to those that either only know APA rules or just made up rules their dad taught them. Like it's that hard to explain what a called shot is or what a push out is.

I like how the USAPL keeps score, you win, you get points for the win. And done.

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not trying to give you a history lesson but at one time these " real " pool rules you speak of had 8 ball as a slop game even at the pro level ...along with take what you make.


Over time bcapl.....tap and other leagues have changed or modified rules to make the game easier...apa has adhered to the rules the were in effect when it started and did not make them up due to being a banger league as so many people think.

When I mention making the game easier I am referring to ...scratch on the 8 is not a loss.....bih anywhere on the table after a scratch on the break....open break..

Other than slop....which you just dont see much of from 5's and above apa rules make it harder to have a break and run or a table run in 8 ball.

ShootingArts said:

I have always planned the entire run myself. Never understood teaching people to play three balls ahead. In reality they have two choices. Shoot three balls without a clue what is next or add a ball and position after every shot. That disrupts flow. I prefer the entire inning, to a runout or planned safety, to feel like one continuous motion. Can't do that and be regrouping and planning after every shot.

Which reminds me, seems like Lorider is handicapping himself counting safes and two-way shots and such when he is supposed to be at the table to play pool! Also seems like his rating might be a little low himself.

Hu

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Guilty as charged. i have been accused of sandbagging countless times which is not true.

Honestly....consistency or lack of hinders me from a higher rating I believe. Especially in 9 ball. When my break is working i can hang with any one but the skill level 9's but when it is not i am in for a rough night. I have 29% disability in my shooting hand and some nights its like a dull toothache and other nights it may be like some one stuck a knife in it. I never take medication.....for anything. I just grin and bear it. Been that way all my life. Hard to play your best when your shooting hand hurts due to nerve damage. There have been times my cue slips out of my hand while stroking causing a foul . Not very often it happens but has occurred at inopportune times in a match. I always carry my cue in my other hand to avoid dropping it when not shooting.

As for the keeping track of safes and such....not all the time but definitely against new players to get a better judge of their handicap.