Hal Houle
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Do you mean CTE or PRO ONE accounts automatically for CIT?av84fun said:
Colin
Colin Colenso said:
CTE...at Levels 1 and 2...because the CB is directed to the OB with a center ball hit and since the OB goes dead center, it follows that the system has "chosen" the correct CP...which is not the geometric CP on cut shots.
I exclude Pro One because I am not fully up to speed on it and if I was, I wouldn't comment on it in a public forum.
Jim
mbvl said:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbvl
As usual you are completely wrong. The CTE line does not appear at all in Patrick's diagram. The two lines drawn are the lines of aim required to make the two balls. If you were to draw the CTE lines, you would see that they coincide.
Mark
I don't know who rattled your cage but you need to brush up on your reading skills.
This is what PATRICK posted...
The cue ball has the same center-to-edge alignment with the 1 ball and with the 6 ball.
It FLAT DOES NOT and Stan POSTED that it DOES NOT...Is he usually wrong too in your opinion?
He's wrong in this case, and so are you. You're both mistaken about where the lines in my diagram go and what they mean. More than one other poster understood the diagram and question completely.
Being mistaken isn't a sin, but maybe you should emulate Stan and try not to be so belligerent about it. That way fewer people will notice.
No, Jim, you're flat wrong about this.
Here's the diagram mine was copied from, showing all 6 OBs on the same CTE line with the CB:
And here's my diagram again, with the CB, 1 ball and 6 ball in the exact same positions (I copied the Wei code from the first diagram into Cuetable.com and then removed the other 4 OBs and the line along their edges):
Now, just for you, here's my diagram again with the extra lines and balls removed and the CTE line restored as it was in the original diagram:
The alignment of the balls hasn't changed from the original diagram with all 6 balls, Jim. You can go through these steps yourself if you want to verify that.
I've explained this to you before, Jim. Other posters, like Dr. Dave, understood it perfectly without any explanation. Is any of it beginning to penetrate your wall of willful incomprehension?
pj
chgo
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35 pages and 500+ posts....and I think I may understand even less about this CTE system than I did before...
But heck I can't even get past the thought that if you line up center CB to edge of OB and then pivot (in some fashion) to center OB (guessing) how in the world is that not going to apply unwanted english on the CB????
Does that tip stay in place and the cue pivots about the tip?
Does the pivot happen similar to BHE where the bridge hand is the pivot axis?
Does the butt end stay in place and the cue pivots about the butt?
I am sure it works and I would love to see it demonstrated (at table) but I can't think of anyone locally that uses the system (that I know of) that would be "willing" to teach it... I suspect there is a (used to be) very top level bar box player that uses at least a form of this system...but I doubt he is the info sharing type.
I also suspect that the end result ends up being one of the HH-3 Line shots anyway...
The reason I would be interested in the CTE system is not that the 3-line system does not work...It works for my method if I actually take the time to view the shot and figure out the proper line axis....
Sometimes I get lazy and don't really look at the angle of the shot and end up choosing the wrong axis line and miss....(BADLY)...then I go back and line up via my method..and it goes right in.
But heck I can't even get past the thought that if you line up center CB to edge of OB and then pivot (in some fashion) to center OB (guessing) how in the world is that not going to apply unwanted english on the CB????
Does that tip stay in place and the cue pivots about the tip?
Does the pivot happen similar to BHE where the bridge hand is the pivot axis?
Does the butt end stay in place and the cue pivots about the butt?
I am sure it works and I would love to see it demonstrated (at table) but I can't think of anyone locally that uses the system (that I know of) that would be "willing" to teach it... I suspect there is a (used to be) very top level bar box player that uses at least a form of this system...but I doubt he is the info sharing type.
I also suspect that the end result ends up being one of the HH-3 Line shots anyway...
The reason I would be interested in the CTE system is not that the 3-line system does not work...It works for my method if I actually take the time to view the shot and figure out the proper line axis....
Sometimes I get lazy and don't really look at the angle of the shot and end up choosing the wrong axis line and miss....(BADLY)...then I go back and line up via my method..and it goes right in.
You are correct. I used a piece of paper as a straight edge when I first looked at your diagram and obviously misaligned it.
My apologies.
However, as has been discussed previously, your diagrams are in 2D and pool is played in 3D and therefore, in spite of the accuracy of your diagram in 2D it proves nothing in the real world. I am not trained in the science of perspective in any dimension and I presume you are not either.
Bottom line...and in spite of your numerous comments that neither CTE or any other systems works without intentional or subconscious adjustment...that is not true with CTE on center ball hits.
The ONLY way to verify the above would be to use an Iron Willie mechanism. But I for one could care less. What I care about is pocketing balls and this method, in the words of OTHERS, has been a life-altering experience.
Jim
My apologies.
However, as has been discussed previously, your diagrams are in 2D and pool is played in 3D and therefore, in spite of the accuracy of your diagram in 2D it proves nothing in the real world. I am not trained in the science of perspective in any dimension and I presume you are not either.
Bottom line...and in spite of your numerous comments that neither CTE or any other systems works without intentional or subconscious adjustment...that is not true with CTE on center ball hits.
The ONLY way to verify the above would be to use an Iron Willie mechanism. But I for one could care less. What I care about is pocketing balls and this method, in the words of OTHERS, has been a life-altering experience.
Jim
Patrick Johnson said:
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mbvl said:
Yes, you were right and Stan was mistaken, but it wasn't Stan's fault. As usual, this confusion came from another poster's stubborn, blindered combativeness.
pj
chgo
I wish all parties would relax a little and get back to discussion. It's makes d1ckheads like me less likely to jump in. When everyone's a d1ck, d1cks stay away.
It's kind of like having two male cats.....
when a third male cat wants to come play, he often doesn't because of all the sprayed piss on the wall and furniture.
Don't piss in the kitchen....
It's kind of like having two male cats.....
when a third male cat wants to come play, he often doesn't because of all the sprayed piss on the wall and furniture.
Don't piss in the kitchen....
The basic systems are played by aligning the tip to b center. Shouldn't be unwanted english unless the player strokes badly, as in all potting methods.BRKNRUN said:
The tip is pivoted via the bridge as a fulcrum in stages 1 and 2 as I understand. Basically the same as a BHE pivot, but to the center CB rather than away from it. In stage three the pivot is done before the bridge hits the table, perhaps trough the centre of the cue, though that isn't important, so long as the final cue line after the pivot is the required aim line. ( again, my translation of what I've been told....and btw, HAL say this is not his method, I assume it is Stan Shuffet's method of PRO ONE).
As far as I can tell from talking to users and asking Hal about this it is non-mechanical, though Hal insists the tip offest (not bridge) is 1 & 1/8th inch from the CTE line for all shots.
Make of that what you may.
Colin
Pardon me if I don't break down in tears of gratitude.
Here's another quote of yours that you should think about:
And here's a couple of promises I (and I'm sure many others) wish you'd keep:
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
I takes a man to apologize and a BABY like you to not to accept it like a man.
but you know what...FVCK you. And FVCK this forum. You try to be helpful and all you get is grief from stoneheaded nitwits like you.
I hereby resign...and expect Mr. Willie to ban me anyway which I hope he does and removes any further temptation to waste my time.
)-:
Anyone who gives a $hit can e-mail me at av84fun@aol.com
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Winning Points:
AV84FUN:
- Hard written "ground and pound"
- Text bolding and font size expert
- Intuitive ways of spoofing the anti-cuss system on AZB
PJ CHGO:
- Hard passive aggressive
- 7th degree black belt in Brazilian text-quoting
- Master of geometry submissions
Bruce Buffer:
LIIIIIIIIIVE from the AZ Billiards Forum.....ITTTTTTTTTTT'S TIIIIIIIIIIIIME!!!!!
BIG JOHN MCCARTHY:
ARE YOU READY!?
ARE YOU READY?!
LET'S GET IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AV84FUN:
- Hard written "ground and pound"
- Text bolding and font size expert
- Intuitive ways of spoofing the anti-cuss system on AZB
PJ CHGO:
- Hard passive aggressive
- 7th degree black belt in Brazilian text-quoting
- Master of geometry submissions
Bruce Buffer:
LIIIIIIIIIVE from the AZ Billiards Forum.....ITTTTTTTTTTT'S TIIIIIIIIIIIIME!!!!!
BIG JOHN MCCARTHY:
ARE YOU READY!?
ARE YOU READY?!
LET'S GET IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop acting like children ... PLEASE!!!
I wish both of you would admit that you have been immature and uncivil on this thread. Then we can all move on and try to have civil and productive discussion.
I'm not saying either of you need to apologize to each other or to all of the users viewing this thread, but I would certainly respect both of you more if you did.
Regards,
Dave
I wish both of you would admit that you have been immature and uncivil on this thread. Then we can all move on and try to have civil and productive discussion.
I'm not saying either of you need to apologize to each other or to all of the users viewing this thread, but I would certainly respect both of you more if you did.
Regards,
Dave
av84fun said:
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On Acad I have drawn what I believe to be the tenets of CTE - shift - pivot - hit.
How it can work:
With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 1 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .50" (~13mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .50" to the left = 50 degrees.
With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 2 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .20" (~5mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .20" to the left = 50 degrees.
With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 8 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .05" (~1.25mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .05" to the left = 50 degrees.
Back to SAM or ghost ball I say.
How it can work:
With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 1 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .50" (~13mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .50" to the left = 50 degrees.
With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 2 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .20" (~5mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .20" to the left = 50 degrees.
With a bridge 8" behind the CB and the OB 8 foot from the CB; CTE on the right of the OB; a shift of .05" (~1.25mm) to the right; pivot to center of CB and hit; results in a 15 degree cut on the OB going to the left. A shift of .05" to the left = 50 degrees.
Back to SAM or ghost ball I say.
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Colin, The tip offset is exactly an inch and an eighth from the CTE. That's what I teach. That is what Hal taught me. As far a mechanical pivot in the system of PRO ONE there is only a pronounced pivot for training purposes. The word "mechanical" in an instructional context is a metaphor. I refer to it as "mechanical" because of the deliberate emphasis placed upon the movement. It is a teaching technique. I was in an elementary classroom for 30 years. I have a tendency to really break things down into steps. That's why I have in 3 phases for PRO ONE. You will not see Landon execute a mechanical pivot. Where the systems emerge the offset happens as a visual and then the cue turns to center CB.
Stan Shuffett
Stan Shuffett
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Can either of you explain what "tip offset" means here?
pj
chgo