CTE/ProOne Help Needed

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
This is a false assumption. Since I am nothing but a Ghostball user, I can tell you for a fact that there is no estimation about where I am gonna put the CB.

One shot I can think of with ghostball that is not an estimation is the half-ball hit. When you recognize you are on the half ball hit line, you know that you can just aim at the edge of the OB to make the shot. That is an objective target, there is no estimation involved. You can further refine the objectivity of Ghostball aiming with fractions, or quarters systems. If you can recognize them, they are objective targets. Everything else in between is an estimation. Sure you can refine that system over years of HAMB and you can one-stroke your shots with confidence, but by definition the placement of the ghostball is subjective.

But then again I practice a hell of a lot more than most on here, which if you read between the system hype, they all require practice to master and one is not easier to master then the other.

This is a false assumption.
 

gazman100

Brunswick Gold Crowns - Qld Australia
Silver Member
Quote:I have reached the stage of looking at the CB last. It is so simple. I have the crown of the CB and the bottom of the CB as objective references for my tip position. When I am stopped at CCB, I focus on the CB, just a tick above my tip position. When I pull the cue back my attention never leaves the very small contact area of CCB. My pull back to pause is slow and my visual attention to CCB target is not interrupted by shifting to the OB. I believe this is the ultimate eye pattern for CTE.

When first learning CTE PRO ONE, I recommend staying with the tip at CCB throughout the backswing and then shifting to the OB at the pause position.
This can allow you to eventually consider the CB last as your target. Eye patterns are individual but one problem many players have is that their eye patterns are inconsistent and allow for mental and visual disconnect from the task at hand.Quote:

Hi Stan,
This eye patten is almost opposite to how I was taught. Can you cover this eye patten for Pro/one in debth in your new DVD2.
One million thanks again.
Cheers:smile:
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Quote:I have reached the stage of looking at the CB last. It is so simple. I have the crown of the CB and the bottom of the CB as objective references for my tip position. When I am stopped at CCB, I focus on the CB, just a tick above my tip position. When I pull the cue back my attention never leaves the very small contact area of CCB. My pull back to pause is slow and my visual attention to CCB target is not interrupted by shifting to the OB. I believe this is the ultimate eye pattern for CTE.

When first learning CTE PRO ONE, I recommend staying with the tip at CCB throughout the backswing and then shifting to the OB at the pause position.
This can allow you to eventually consider the CB last as your target. Eye patterns are individual but one problem many players have is that their eye patterns are inconsistent and allow for mental and visual disconnect from the task at hand.Quote:

Hi Stan,
This eye patten is almost opposite to how I was taught. Can you cover this eye patten for Pro/one in debth in your new DVD2.
One million thanks again.
Cheers:smile:

Yes, I cover this on DVD2 but it is fairly straight forward.

CCB connects your aim to the pockets for all shots.

CCB is money!

Use your strongest visual alignment during full stance that allows you to see a perfect CB, particularly your target, CCB.

When you sweep to CCB your first task is to tweak your tip to exact CCB. Use the crown of the CB or its base as a reference. Then look up at the OB. You must resist tweaking your tip position to make the OB look correct. You must learn to trust CCB. If the OB presents a red flag, you will recognize that. Just start over if you have to make horizontal tip movements to get in line. Often there are tweaks, but those tweaks are ALWAYS to CCB.

Since CCB is your target there is not much sense in sawing wood. Zero, one, maybe two practice are sufficient. I used to take 6-8 strokes. I am down to Zero now. I have never pocketed balls better.

Let's say you have CCB as a target with your tip stopped at the CB, dead center.
You have 4 eye pattern options at this point as I see it.
1. Shift up to OB and then engage in backswing and shoot.
2. Shift up to OB during backswing and then continue to your finished stroke.
3. Complete backswing and then during your pause shift your eyes to the OB and then shoot.
4. You are stopped the CB and your eyes are focused 1 tick above your tip placement. As you pull your cue back, your eyes in laser- like fashion focus intently on the exact CB tick that represents your target. Continue to the pause position and all the way to finish. There is no real need to look at the OB.

During my journey With CTE I progressed from 1 to 4. A perfect pattern does not happen all at once. There are factors that must blend together through experience. A strong eye pattern represents a very strong mental/ visual connection to the CB OB relationship. In time a confidence emerges that can allow one trust in the CB as a target vs the OB.

Our game is largely about allowing our visual and physical intelligence to work at their highest level. The highest level is simply see and shoot. The eyes and body figure out how to connect with pockets given enough time.

The amazing thing about CTE PRO ONE is that its objectivity represents a set of instructions that take you to shot lines. This was not supposed to be. Our eyes and body have no words for this.

Pure CTE is simply a set of 2 perceptions and a slight rotation to CCB that connects with the pockets. This description was never supposed to happen and clearly represents aiming in a new dimension.

I show all of this in DVD2. And again, I can and will demo all that I say and present on DVD2.

Stan Shuffett
 
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Yoda4962

North Texas
Silver Member
Not to be too argumentative, but....

This is a false assumption. Since I am nothing but a Ghostball user, I can tell you for a fact that there is no estimation about where I am gonna put the CB.

Plus since I do shoot one handed shots where I start my stroke with the cue tip a distance from the CB and can not do any form of warm up strokes and the shot goes where I want and not where I hope( like alot of players I see) proves that warm up strokes are not needed when using Ghostball. In addition, there are other type of shots where I just pull back and stroke, no warm up needed.

How do you account for this fact? I mean I am using Ghostball and can get the cue on the aim line and stroke and the OB goes center pocket. How can this be if using ghost ball is estimating?

But then again I practice a hell of a lot more than most on here, which if you read between the system hype, they all require practice to master and one is not easier to master then the other.

Statements like the one made in the quote above is done so to justify your failure in using Ghostball and that's all.


Many players are looking for additional tools in their tool box. So even though they may start with ghost ball or whatever, they have not progresses as they would like, so they try to add tools. Understanding that no previous tools are completely tossed aside, then ANY system should be tried, and evaluated by each player. Each player has to find their own path to better play, and if you have found yours, then support those that still seek !

Best of luck to you , and keep playing !!!
Y
:smile:
 

Yoda4962

North Texas
Silver Member
My experience may help you on CTE....

I have been playing for about 40 years, left high school to become a full time player, so I've seen a few rodeos ! Also, i practice 6 to 8 hours a day.

After all that time, nothing has increased my ball pocketing CONFIDENCE, as much as CTE and PRO one.

Why am i saying this ? To encourage you to stick with it, and give it your best ability.

Just played on the 10 ft's at the Derby city, and ball pocketing was no problem what so ever !!!

Y
 

Phoenix13

Banned
ccb ........ If you walk around the ball 360 degree's and when ever you decide to stop you will see CCB and a left and right edge of the cue ball.
 

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MOJOE

Work Hard, Be Humble. jbk
Silver Member
Hey Yoda,

Who are you? Just curious which Pro pool player you are! Curious minds want to know!

I have been playing for about 40 years, left high school to become a full time player, so I've seen a few rodeos ! Also, i practice 6 to 8 hours a day.

After all that time, nothing has increased my ball pocketing CONFIDENCE, as much as CTE and PRO one.

Why am i saying this ? To encourage you to stick with it, and give it your best ability.

Just played on the 10 ft's at the Derby city, and ball pocketing was no problem what so ever !!!

Y
 

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks to those posting tips and a big thank you to Scott! He graciously spent over an hour with me on the phone today and helped me in several areas with Pro One. Scott is clearly quite knowledgeable about the game of pool and very articulate. Also, a very nice gentleman indeed!

I played league tonight and after a reasonably good Pro One practice session this afternoon, I decided to use Pro One regardless of the results. I played quite well (for me anyway), annihilated my opponent and had a break and run mixed in with lots of 4 to 6 ball runs during the match. To be fair to Pro One, on most of the tougher shots, I focused on making the shots totally without paying nearly as much attention as usual to CB position. This may have limited my success somewhat but my primary objective was to test Pro One in a somewhat competitive environment for the shot pocketing aspect.

I'd add that on all shots, my eyes were on CCB during the entire stroke. Totally new concept and I can't argue with the results. There were 3 or 4 shots where I couldn't decide upon the proper visuals. These were tough shots anyway so I decided in all cases to opt for a safety.

I wish/hope more people who have had success with Pro One and much more extensive experience will post their thoughts and experiences with Pro One. I can't see how anyone can question the validity of the system if learned and executed properly by the user. Considering I started working with Pro One only 3 weeks ago, I'm rather enthusiastic about the progress to date. Thank you Stan!
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
I have been playing for about 40 years, left high school to become a full time player, so I've seen a few rodeos ! Also, i practice 6 to 8 hours a day.

After all that time, nothing has increased my ball pocketing CONFIDENCE, as much as CTE and PRO one.

Why am i saying this ? To encourage you to stick with it, and give it your best ability.

Just played on the 10 ft's at the Derby city, and ball pocketing was no problem what so ever !!!

Y

"Deleted- after good advice from a good friend".

jimho
 
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Yoda4962

North Texas
Silver Member
Sorry, ...

Hey Yoda,

Who are you? Just curious which Pro pool player you are! Curious minds want to know!

I like my anonymous position so that i don't have to listen to the AZ crazies attacks. ie lou, patrick, etc etc....!
 

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
I have been playing for about 40 years, left high school to become a full time player, so I've seen a few rodeos ! Also, i practice 6 to 8 hours a day.

After all that time, nothing has increased my ball pocketing CONFIDENCE, as much as CTE and PRO one.

Why am i saying this ? To encourage you to stick with it, and give it your best ability.

Just played on the 10 ft's at the Derby city, and ball pocketing was no problem what so ever !!!

Y

Are you kidding?? :confused:

You were rail driving every time you got to the table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpjOl2PNyEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5UgmrHfZmI
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
I have been playing for about 40 years, left high school to become a full time player, so I've seen a few rodeos ! Also, i practice 6 to 8 hours a day.

After all that time, nothing has increased my ball pocketing CONFIDENCE, as much as CTE and PRO one.

Why am i saying this ? To encourage you to stick with it, and give it your best ability.

Just played on the 10 ft's at the Derby city, and ball pocketing was no problem what so ever !!!

Y

Well,

after watching some attempts i am asking myself if i would maybe seen the wrong video or the wrong player?
The way you step into the ball- and the way you approach the shot has absolutley nothing to do with Pro-1, and neither with CTE. Or you invented something new......
You had several times different pivot lenghts/bridges- and stepping different into the shot. *Airpivoting* not repeatable. So this couldn t be pro1 or cte (of course just my humble opinion).

And for someone who had no problems with pocketing at all---- well. let the video speak for itself.

I really really wonder a bit. If a pro plays this way-and a 100 ball runner-- then i have to start to overthink many many things about my pool-knowledge.
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bridge Distance, An Important Factor

A Rule for Pivot or Visual Sweep direction is that for any given shot the rotation can be either right or left.

Is there a shot that can the same visuals but can have both pivot directions?

YES, And this can be a good lesson concerning the importance of proper bridge distance.

Let's say the CB is 1/2 ball off of an end rail. The OB is 6 diamonds or so down table as a very slight cut to the the right corner pocket.

Typically this shot calls for an outside pivot direction or left because it represents a very thick cut in the system.

TWO SITUATIONS:
1. I want to pound the ball, cutting it into the corner, and bring the CUEBALL back up table for my next shot.

2. I want to lag the shot very softly so the CUEBALL tags along to the end rail.

For #1. Use an extended bridge off of the end rail in order to achieve a normal bridge distance. This allows for proper acceleration and the pivot is typical and from the outside. LEFT

For #2. Now for the lag. The longer extended rail bridge is not needed. Use a full hand bridge on the rail channeling your cue between your thumb and index finger. This will make for a very short bridge distance. This will encourage supreme accuracy and a very short backswing. THE PIVOT DIRECTION IS NOW FROM THE INSIDE. RIGHT

WHY? An exaggerated shorter bridge distance occurred. Something had to change.

The lesson:
In manual pivoting,bridge distances are strict. In Pro One bridge distances are more flexible but when exaggerations occur, an adjustment is needed and that adjustment may come in the form of an opposite pivot direction.

The learning never stops...

Stan Shuffett
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well,

after watching some attempts i am asking myself if i would maybe seen the wrong video or the wrong player?
The way you step into the ball- and the way you approach the shot has absolutley nothing to do with Pro-1, and neither with CTE. Or you invented something new......
You had several times different pivot lenghts/bridges- and stepping different into the shot. *Airpivoting* not repeatable. So this couldn t be pro1 or cte (of course just my humble opinion).

And for someone who had no problems with pocketing at all---- well. let the video speak for itself.

I really really wonder a bit. If a pro plays this way-and a 100 ball runner-- then i have to start to overthink many many things about my pool-knowledge.

The gentleman was clearly in a PRO ONE mode and I only watched up to the first miss.
There are many, many pros that do not get through a single rack on the 10 footers till the groove happens.
I admire the fellow for getting up there and taking his swings. That's says something to me. it's easy to criticize from the bench.

Stan Shuffett
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
The gentleman was clearly in a PRO ONE mode and I only watched up to the first miss.
There are many, many pros that do not get through a single rack on the 10 footers till the groove happens.
I admire the fellow for getting up there and taking his swings. That's says something to me. it's easy to criticize from the bench.

Stan Shuffett

Stan:

To be fair, it's more than just that. I think what Ingo is saying, is not to look at the "aiming system" the player in question is using, but rather, look at his fundamentals (e.g. his grip, with the thumb on the outside of the cue), his stroke, and more importantly -- from a 14.1 standpoint -- his patterns.

It's one thing to get up there and "take a swing at shots" on the 10-footer. It's quite another to select the correct shot for patterns conducive to pocketing success, and for setting up the rest of the pattern where it's an easy-enough out. To look at this from an "aiming system zealot" point of view, where "any shot on the table is a done deal, all you have to do is execute the system correctly and the ball will go" is extremely short-sighted.

Let me word the question a little differently. Watch the videos in their ENTIRETY. Please put your 14.1 hat on when doing so. Watch the patterns, shot selection, cue ball control (or lack of), excessive bumping of balls, etc. And keep this question in mind: "Do you think the player in question is normally a 100-ball runner?" (Please keep the 10-foot platform out of the question -- this is not a question of the shot difficulty caused by the increased distance. This is a question of CORRECT PATTERNS that would be conducive to 100-ball runs, as this player claims. This is a question of RECOGNITION of a 100-ball runner when you see him/her.)

That's what Ingo is saying. And I tend to agree with him. The player in this video, IMHO, is not a 100-ball runner.

-Sean
 

Phoenix13

Banned
Sean, your misunderstanding Ratta's post. Ratta is talking about the fundamentals of cte/pro1 that yoda is using and not about the game. I can see that yoda uses more of a manual cte pivot. He actually looks to be stuck in between a manual and pro1 pivot and looks to be comfortable with that "in between manual/pro1 pivot".
 
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Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Sean, your misunderstanding Ratta's post. Ratta is talking about the fundamentals of cte/pro1 that yoda is using and not about the game. I can see that yoda uses more of a manual cte pivot. He actually looks to be stuck in between a manual and pro1 pivot and looks to be comfortable with that "in between manual/pro1 pivot".

Well,

i meant for sure *both*-- already Pmed with STan about the pro1/cte thing. But Sean is right- he has interpreted my thoughts very well, too.
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stan:

To be fair, it's more than just that. I think what Ingo is saying, is not to look at the "aiming system" the player in question is using, but rather, look at his fundamentals (e.g. his grip, with the thumb on the outside of the cue), his stroke, and more importantly -- from a 14.1 standpoint -- his patterns.

It's one thing to get up there and "take a swing at shots" on the 10-footer. It's quite another to select the correct shot for patterns conducive to pocketing success, and for setting up the rest of the pattern where it's an easy-enough out. To look at this from an "aiming system zealot" point of view, where "any shot on the table is a done deal, all you have to do is execute the system correctly and the ball will go" is extremely short-sighted.

Let me word the question a little differently. Watch the videos in their ENTIRETY. Please put your 14.1 hat on when doing so. Watch the patterns, shot selection, cue ball control (or lack of), excessive bumping of balls, etc. And keep this question in mind: "Do you think the player in question is normally a 100-ball runner?" (Please keep the 10-foot platform out of the question -- this is not a question of the shot difficulty caused by the increased distance. This is a question of CORRECT PATTERNS that would be conducive to 100-ball runs, as this player claims. This is a question of RECOGNITION of a 100-ball runner when you see him/her.)

That's what Ingo is saying. And I tend to agree with him. The player in this video, IMHO, is not a 100-ball runner.

-Sean

Sean,

Your post is fair.... But this game is so darn tough and it is so easy to get off your feet that I tend give a little slack.

I only watched to the 1st miss and that was on my I phone at that.

I will try later to view more of his play.

I only noticed his alignments and movements, and I assessed that he was using Pro One. And to be clear, Pro one does not , in itself, mean the runs are going to be special.

My first thoughts are: This gentlemen has indicated that he does run 100 from time to time. I will not question his word. Perhaps he will post a run of 90 or a 100 or whatever since his integrity has been questioned.

That's what I'd do. I would get the video camera and post up a run.

Stan Shuffett
 
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