Why is pool like it is?

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
I know it's been asked many times, but I felt like ranting a little:

So I'm looking at web pages of some of the pros from countries not the USA, and I see that in some other countries they are on talk shows, involved with the olympic committees of their respective countries, they are included with other sports stars in chatity events, trade shows, autograph sessions, they visit children and soldiers in hospitals, they make commercials, and so on, and are treated with respect by their peers that are also sportsmen and women, as well, billiard events in most other countries get media coverage as citizens are genuinely interested in the results. They make the sports pages in the news papers. Hell, in the USA even chess and spelling bees make the evening news and the papers.
Here in this country the only time these guys get their names in print is when they're wanted. I don't know of a sports media of any kind in this country that even considers pool players as athletes. Pool players in the USA rate somewhere below tractor pull drivers and 'Rasslers. It seems to me that if tennis and golf in this country can host (and pay out) multi-million dollar international events that pool should be able to as well. Why not? Can someone please explain to me what's wrong with us as a culture, why are we the scum of the competitive sporting world?
 

RunOut Apps

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool

I know exactly why...and I would tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. I hope that explains it.
 
I know it's been asked many times, but I felt like ranting a little:

So I'm looking at web pages of some of the pros from countries not the USA, and I see that in some other countries they are on talk shows, involved with the olympic committees of their respective countries, they are included with other sports stars in chatity events, trade shows, autograph sessions, they visit children and soldiers in hospitals, they make commercials, and so on, and are treated with respect by their peers that are also sportsmen and women, as well, billiard events in most other countries get media coverage as citizens are genuinely interested in the results. They make the sports pages in the news papers. Hell, in the USA even chess and spelling bees make the evening news and the papers.
Here in this country the only time these guys get their names in print is when they're wanted. I don't know of a sports media of any kind in this country that even considers pool players as athletes. Pool players in the USA rate somewhere below tractor pull drivers and 'Rasslers. It seems to me that if tennis and golf in this country can host (and pay out) multi-million dollar international events that pool should be able to as well. Why not? Can someone please explain to me what's wrong with us as a culture, why are we the scum of the competitive sporting world?

It seems to me that U.S. poolplayers are more interested in gambling than anything else. I don't criticize that behavior either, it's the reason I like playing pool, but it's not the image the general public is comfortable with and it's the general public that matters.

U.S. players cut up prize money, conspire to dump backers, have savers and all kinds of other unsavory things. The number one U.S. player attempted to steal a ball and a game in the 2012 DCC Bankpool Finals yet it's denied by most here even though it's on a dvd. It's easier to ignore the behavior and pretend it doesn't happen then it is to actually step up and point out the bad behavior. The foreign players seem to have more respect for themselves and the game. There will always be exceptions both ways but this seems to be the general practice I see.

Nobody can even agree on whether or not the 1991 COC ended up being a dump.

Try watching some AccuStats matches and you will see players who stayed up all night gambling and have an early match. They look like hell and many dress shabbily. Jeans falling off their butts, shirts untucked. They seem to have no self-respect judging by all appearances. They usually play like crap since they're on no sleep. I can't remember the last time Cliff Joyner looked awake during a match. When I watch foreign players they are usually well-dressed and look like they slept during the night.

The U.S. players have no sense of national pride in the game and why should they? Like you correctly pointed out, they are the bottom of the competitive sporting world.

ONB
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
We're not the scum; we're just boring from an entertainment-value perspective.

Stop 100 people on the street and ask if they've ever viewed a chess match -- live, post-match, TV or internet whatever. Zero, zip, nada...not even the ones who play chess want to spend their time watching a chess match. Too boring.

Pool is the same way.

Golf got a leg up on other sports because it was originally a rich man's game, and advertisers want to reach rich men (even if the audience isn't big).
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most of pool players in others countries are ALTHELES with training schedule, coach,etc and they do gamble in their free time if they want.
Most of pool players in the U.S are GAMBLERS. ( I said most of them ).
So when the states look at pool, what they see ?
Who you think gonna have the support for the states ? an athelete or a gambler ?

I know it's been asked many times, but I felt like ranting a little:

So I'm looking at web pages of some of the pros from countries not the USA, and I see that in some other countries they are on talk shows, involved with the olympic committees of their respective countries, they are included with other sports stars in chatity events, trade shows, autograph sessions, they visit children and soldiers in hospitals, they make commercials, and so on, and are treated with respect by their peers that are also sportsmen and women, as well, billiard events in most other countries get media coverage as citizens are genuinely interested in the results. They make the sports pages in the news papers. Hell, in the USA even chess and spelling bees make the evening news and the papers.
Here in this country the only time these guys get their names in print is when they're wanted. I don't know of a sports media of any kind in this country that even considers pool players as athletes. Pool players in the USA rate somewhere below tractor pull drivers and 'Rasslers. It seems to me that if tennis and golf in this country can host (and pay out) multi-million dollar international events that pool should be able to as well. Why not? Can someone please explain to me what's wrong with us as a culture, why are we the scum of the competitive sporting world?
 
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center pocket

It's just a hobby, but a fun one.
Silver Member
Well whenever I talk to anyone that doesn't play pool, the first thing out of their mouth is "you are a pool shark, or a hustler." Until that stigma changes too something like, "oh are you an amateur? Do you play in any tournaments or professionally?" Then pool will never get the recognition it deserves.

When we start promoting a clean and professional sport instead of gambling matches, we move inches closer to that reality. Heads up matches are great if they are promoted more like boxing events instead of wager matches.

For pool to reach the level you speak gambling/hustling has to disappear from pool lingo. Clothing apparel like "Hustlin'" does nothing good for our sport, even if it looks cool. Of course Eminem could write a song about pool Hustlin than it might get the appeal from the masses that hustlin is cool.

The most realistic option is promoting a clean, challenging, and intriguing sport.
 

itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It seems to me that U.S. poolplayers are more interested in gambling than anything else. I don't criticize that behavior either, it's the reason I like playing pool, but it's not the image the general public is comfortable with and it's the general public that matters.

U.S. players cut up prize money, conspire to dump backers, have savers and all kinds of other unsavory things. The number one U.S. player attempted to steal a ball and a game in the 2012 DCC Bankpool Finals yet it's denied by most here even though it's on a dvd. It's easier to ignore the behavior and pretend it doesn't happen then it is to actually step up and point out the bad behavior. The foreign players seem to have more respect for themselves and the game. There will always be exceptions both ways but this seems to be the general practice I see.

Nobody can even agree on whether or not the 1991 COC ended up being a dump.

Try watching some AccuStats matches and you will see players who stayed up all night gambling and have an early match. They look like hell and many dress shabbily. Jeans falling off their butts, shirts untucked. They seem to have no self-respect judging by all appearances. They usually play like crap since they're on no sleep. I can't remember the last time Cliff Joyner looked awake during a match. When I watch foreign players they are usually well-dressed and look like they slept during the night.

The U.S. players have no sense of national pride in the game and why should they? Like you correctly pointed out, they are the bottom of the competitive sporting world.

ONB

BS The general public are OKing new casino's all over the country as we speak.
 

Jodacus

Shoot...don't talk
Silver Member
Image

The players (especially the pros) have to
make an effort to rehab the image of pool.
Charity type events. Favorable news reports.
Good guy actions. Gambling is only an issue
in that it may (or may not) contribute to the
negative image of pool. People gamble at golf
all of the time, doesn't seem to hurt golf's
image.

It may never happen because we as a
whole have dug such a deep pit for
ourselves that I'm not confident we have
the cojones for the concerted effort it
will take to dig our way to a more favorable
image. Digging is such drudgery.

Joe
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some good points all, but...,

Pool would be ok if there were a few guys at the top of the game that could be promoted, but there are not. Shane is a good guy and a true champion, but not marketable. Theres no need to go through the rest of the names, there stories are public record and even if there was one guy out there, there aint two.

Its a hard game to play, unlike bowling where the reward is immediate or darts where anyone can play, Pool requires a commitment to become good or even proficient, so it almost seen as a niche game to many or a recreation not a serious sport.

We had all better PUSH THE APA LEAGUES so that we can keep bringing new blood in and convert them to BCA players as they improve and then tournament players for the percentage that become proficient.
 
It seems to me that U.S. poolplayers are more interested in gambling than anything else. I don't criticize that behavior either, it's the reason I like playing pool, but it's not the image the general public is comfortable with and it's the general public that matters.

U.S. players cut up prize money, conspire to dump backers, have savers and all kinds of other unsavory things. The number one U.S. player attempted to steal a ball and a game in the 2012 DCC Bankpool Finals yet it's denied by most here even though it's on a dvd. It's easier to ignore the behavior and pretend it doesn't happen then it is to actually step up and point out the bad behavior. The foreign players seem to have more respect for themselves and the game. There will always be exceptions both ways but this seems to be the general practice I see.

Nobody can even agree on whether or not the 1991 COC ended up being a dump.

Try watching some AccuStats matches and you will see players who stayed up all night gambling and have an early match. They look like hell and many dress shabbily. Jeans falling off their butts, shirts untucked. They seem to have no self-respect judging by all appearances. They usually play like crap since they're on no sleep. I can't remember the last time Cliff Joyner looked awake during a match. When I watch foreign players they are usually well-dressed and look like they slept during the night.

The U.S. players have no sense of national pride in the game and why should they? Like you correctly pointed out, they are the bottom of the competitive sporting world.

ONB

BS The general public are OKing new casino's all over the country as we speak.

I work with guys who wouldn't play me a game of pool for a beer. These same guys think nothing of going to a casino and losing $300-$400 on a night off. Many people don't see casinos as the evil they are but they can imagine their son being hustled out of his allowance at the local poolhall.

Rightly or wrongly pool has a terrible image problem in this country and always will have it.

P.S. Only responding to the first line of my post does not negate the entire post.

ONB
 

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think that pool will ever become completely separated from gambling. But the gambling aspect can be minimized so that the more appreciable parts of the game can shine. When you've got people running around saying "I can't eat trophies, give me the cash!" what kind of impression do you think that makes?
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Just about no one watches pool in this county anymore. I just think we already had our pool hay-day after WW2 and the few things that could have boosted the game back up there like the two movies were blown. W/O promotion pool will never survive much longer and W/O money backing it can't get promoted. Johnnyt
 

center pocket

It's just a hobby, but a fun one.
Silver Member
Just about no one watches pool in this county anymore. I just think we already had our pool hay-day after WW2 and the few things that could have boosted the game back up there like the two movies were blown. W/O promotion pool will never survive much longer and W/O money backing it can't get promoted. Johnnyt

Hence why I am trying to become a billionaire, give me another 20 years
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool would be ok if there were a few guys Its a hard game to play, unlike bowling where the reward is immediate or darts where anyone can play,t the top of the game that could be promoted, but there are not. Shane is a good guy and a true champion, but not marketable. Theres no need to go through the rest of the names, there stories are public record and even if there was one guy out there, there aint two.

Its a hard game to play, unlike bowling where the reward is immediate or darts where anyone can play, Pool requires a commitment to become good or even proficient, so it almost seen as a niche game to many or a recreation not a serious sport.

We had all better PUSH THE APA LEAGUES so that we can keep bringing new blood in and convert them to BCA players as they improve and then tournament players for the percentage that become proficient.

This has been brought up before, but you hit on the main cause. "Its a hard game to play, and unlike bowling where the reward is immediate".... If you are 40 or older, you probably have noticed the degeneration of work ethics in this country. I see it every day at work. Too many of the younger generations think they deserve a paycheck, but don't think they should have to work for it. They do the absolute minimum to keep from getting canned. And if a hearing does come up, the unions pull out all stops to keep that person employed.

Not just work ethics, but we are a society of impatient people. Instant gratification is the name of the game. If you want information on a topic, you have it practically instantly in the palm of your hand. If you don't get the instant results you are looking for, you move on to something that will.

Pool requires hard work and dedication. Two things that Americans have been very short of for a decade. No one wants to put in the work required to be proficient. In my town, there are more people playing CORNHOLE then playing pool. Very sad. No effort required to throw a friggin bag filled with corn. Hell....you don't even have to put your beer down.
Very sad indeed.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Many of us have known discrimination of one type or another. Growing up as a minority you basically had a stereotype pasted to your forehead and not many people could look beyond that. As pool players we're labeled "shark" or "hustler" and that all walks hand in hand with the thought that all pool players are gamblers and alcoholics or worse. Never mind that some our biggest American Heroes have had problems that make pool players look like angels. Pete Rose and Michael Jordan have their own issues or that Babe Ruth had some habits that could kill a horse and Ty Cobb was a known bigot. There are more paternity suites in the NFL, NBA, MLB than you can shake a stick at. Rapists, Drunks, Gang members, fathers of multiple children from multiple women, these are just some of the issues that plague major sports. But still, they continue to turn out "Roll models", "Heroes", and huge profit. Pool can't even afford to always pay it's event winners.
Back to the discrimination thing - some years ago I was a reasonably high level athlete. But as , I competed I blew out knees, and ankles, had different surgeries, and it was apparent that I had to find a different way to be competitive if I still wanted to be so I was introduced to pool. I had been playing for several months and getting better and one day I was listening to a local sports talk show hosted by (now national personality) Craig Carton and the topic was, "Name some great players in their respective sport that never became world champions". They talked about some Race car drivers, golfers, even bowlers. So I called and (I thought cleverly) mentioned Rudolph Wanderone. He asked who that was, and I told him Minnesota Fats. He came right back at me that pool was not a sport and how could I be so ignorant to think so and he went on and on for a minute or two. After I hung up he talked about how pool was an even to see who could soak up the most cigarette smoke or drink the most cheap beer and other such things, but pool could in no way be considered a sport, not even as much as a game of beer ball was in the park on the weekend. I really felt like poop. I do, however, thing he was speaking for the general public. It's just how we're seen.
Wouldn't it be great if a major media personality took time and covered an event or two, or if Team USA for the Mosconi Cup were to appear on Good Morning America. It would be great if it could happen as a bit more than a novelty.
Oh, and I still think Craig Carton is a dick
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Personally I think the movie the Hustler and then Color of Money caused the demise of the industry. Now, the first word out of John Q Publics mouth, is ''oh your a pool shark''.


I mentioned this to Tom Rossman approx. a month ago, his eyes lit up and he agreed, he said he never thought about it that way, but realized it was true..
 
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dr9ball

"Lock Doctor"
Silver Member

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most of pool players in others countries are ALTHELES with training schedule, coach,etc and they do gamble in their free time if they want.
Most of pool players in the U.S are GAMBLERS. ( I said most of them ).
So when the states look at pool, what they see ?
Who you think gonna have the support for the states ? an athelete or a gambler ?

So what do they make annually? I have a feeling they are a bunch of bums also but dress better.
 
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