SIDESPIN … Everything You Need to Know

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
heisenbug said:
...when in rotation games, the cueball is frozen to the lowest numbered object ball or when the lowest numbered object ball is frozen to the rail.
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When the cue ball is frozen to the lowest numbered object ball, then you have to shoot the cue ball in a direction that moves the object ball at least a little - in other words, at least slightly toward the object ball. (Note: You can shoot the cue ball straight through an object ball it's frozen to, so long as you use a normal stroke - there's no "push" or "double hit" unless another object ball blocks the path of the object ball or cue ball getting out of the way of your follow through.)

When the object ball is frozen to a rail, then for a "good hit" the cue ball must hit the object ball, and then the cue ball or an object ball must hit a rail. It can be the same rail, but if it's the same object ball then it must leave the rail first (for instance, it rebounds off the rail, hits the cue ball again or another object ball, and then returns to the rail).

These are good questions that even more experienced players ask.

Beware of "rules" you learn playing in bars - they're often only right at that bar (maybe only against that player).

pj
chgo
 
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Pete

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
Thank you. Although, does that mean I should be teaching differently in my pool videos? If so, I am open to suggestions from you and others.

Regards,
Dave
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You teach the way you feel you want and can best get your thoughts across. You try to help others and that's a good thing sir.
 
H

heisenbug

Registered
Yeah, this is the part that's counter-intuitive to me. If it's frozen to a rail, then that rail doesn't count as a hit, because it's leaving the rail and not entering contact with it. It actually has to hit another rail to not count as a foul.

Why then, does a ball frozen to the cue ball count as a hit when it's leaving contact but doesn't actually hit the ball? It doesn't make sense to me that the same rule wouldn't apply and why it should count as a hit.

Patrick Johnson said:
When the cue ball is frozen to the lowest numbered object ball, then you have to shoot the cue ball in a direction that moves the object ball at least a little - in other words, at least slightly toward the object ball. (Note: You can shoot the cue ball straight through an object ball it's frozen to, so long as you use a normal stroke - there's no "push" or "double hit" unless another object ball blocks the path of the object ball or cue ball getting out of the way of your follow through.)

When the object ball is frozen to a rail, then for a "good hit" the cue ball must hit the object ball, and then the cue ball or an object ball must hit a rail. It can be the same rail, but if it's the same object ball then it must leave the rail first (for instance, it rebounds off the rail, hits the cue ball again or another object ball, and then returns to the rail).

These are good questions that even more experienced players ask.

Beware of "rules" you learn playing in bars - they're often only right at that bar (maybe only against that player).

pj
chgo
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Dan Harriman

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
ever thang

everthang u need to know bout how knot to b an academic - is my stance. study well academics - as there is no definition between what is pro and semi pro/amateur. This is all by design I think. hit the books and then what? u can learn everthang u need to bout how to become amateur proish'. What ever ya'll do don't study why there is no straight pool tour.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
heisenbug said:
Yeah, this is the part that's counter-intuitive to me. If it's frozen to a rail, then that rail doesn't count as a hit, because it's leaving the rail and not entering contact with it. It actually has to hit another rail to not count as a foul.
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In most "official" rule sets a rail-frozen object ball can be driven away from the rail and then be pushed back to the same rail, either by hitting the cue ball again or by hitting another object ball - that's counted as a "rail contact" and a good shot.

Why then, does a ball frozen to the cue ball count as a hit when it's leaving contact but doesn't actually hit the ball? It doesn't make sense to me that the same rule wouldn't apply and why it should count as a hit.
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The object ball has to be moved by the cue ball, so it's a "hit" in a sense. But you're right that it isn't a hit by the rail-frozen ball definition (hitting it after not being in contact with it). Why is above my pay grade.

In snooker, if the cue ball's frozen to the object ball you can (maybe you have to) shoot directly away from the object ball, not moving it at all, and it counts as "hitting" the ball. Brits... they like their beer warm too.

pj
chgo
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
... The object ball has to be moved by the cue ball, so it's a "hit" in a sense. But you're right that it isn't a hit by the rail-frozen ball definition (hitting it after not being in contact with it). Why is above my pay grade. ...
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There are two "whys" going on.

The first is a ball frozen on the rail. The reason for the special rule there is to prevent an infinite number of little bump safeties on a frozen ball. Once the ball gets frozen, something else has to happen.

A recent change in the rules is the addition of the stalemate rule. There is a reasonable argument that it makes the "cushion for a frozen ball doesn't count" rule unnecessary. If the rule was changed to give credit for a cushion contact, there would be fewer arguments about frozen balls and I don't think the game would change significantly.

As for the hit counting on a ball the cue ball is frozen to, suppose you are frozen to the only playable ball and you pocket it by shooting into it. Did you hit it? If that doesn't count as a cueball-to-object ball contact it is a very strange situation. You would have to shoot to a cushion and come back or shoot a masse shot to get credit for hitting the ball. That would be a possible way to play, but I think no pool rules have every been like that.

As mentioned, at snooker you get credit for having hit the ball you're frozen to but you must not move it. That rule makes no sense at all, of course, but it is the rule and it works, more or less. At carom, you must shoot away (or have the balls spotted) and you do not get credit for having hit the frozen ball.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Pete said:
thank you, Also looks like a mid point extension too???
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Yes. I added that recently to add length since I am tall (6'3"), but I have also grown to like the added weight.

Before I added it, I was gripping the cue behind the wrap at the end of the butt. Now I can grip on the wrap (for normal shots), and I can easily reach longer shots. I like it.

Regards,
Dave
 
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