Gambling with someone who doesn't take advice...what would you do?

Chili Palmer · Aug 26, 2020

Years ago, had to be late '80's, I was hanging with a local player when these 2 ladies came in and wanted some action (first time I ever saw female road players) and me and my buddy said sure. We weren't big gamblers and I think we ended up playing $5 a game scotch doubles 9B.

My buddy, who was generally a good shot, was clearly not doing well with the pressure and every time I said "do this so I can do that" he would do something completely different and miss or hook me, etc. Either way, it was obvious his errors were making us lose. This went on for about 1 to 1.5 hours and at the end we were down about $60. When we called it we paid the women and I looked at him with my hand out and said "You're paying my share for not listening and doing your own thing which costs us" (or something similar). He balked at it but then both the ladies agreed with me and he ultimately paid me.

Ever have a partner totally screw up the set, if so, what did you do about it? Clearly, I never played with this guy as a partner again.

The_JV · Aug 26, 2020

...and there's the reason I avoid playing scotch doubles...lol.

Honestly, you should know that you're potentially at the mercy of your partner. Despite your efforts to improve his play, I didn't see anything in the story that leads me to believe you couldn't have quit early.

Lesson learnt from the sounds of it. I would have paid my share as penance for the bad decision while knowing better.

Cornerman · Aug 26, 2020

Chili Palmer said:
Ever have a partner totally screw up the set, if so, what did you do about it? Clearly, I never played with this guy as a partner again.

^^^This^^^ (boldfaced). You don't have to play with him nor he with you ever again. Life's too short. In fact, I hardly ever gambled playing Scotch with someone that wasn't a player.

I had a great run in the mid 2000's (BCA and BCAPL/ACS leagues) where I won or came in 2nd well over half of the Scotch tournaments (edit: I wrote, "matches") that I played throughout New England (from Hartford to Portland and everywhere in between). Some were bar boxes, but also big tables, a crazy stretch of 15 or so tournaments, and only out of the money once and 3rd once. I had a multitude of partners, including winning a high/low partner draw, and I drew the tourney director's wife who was just there for support, and her presence made for an even number! We won undefeated! LOL.

I can point to the couple times where I didn't cash or I came in 3rd. Different partners, both excellent players. But we just didn't gel. It happens, and really shouldn't push it if doesn't happen.

Island Drive · Aug 26, 2020

Gambling with someone who doesn't take advice...what would you do?

Let em learn the ''hard way''.

sjm · Aug 26, 2020

I experienced this exactly once, and it was pretty painful, but I quickly realized that it was best to let my partner do their thing and just never team up with that partner again.

The fact is that unless your partner views you as the superior player and strategist, you can't expect them to follow your recommendations in scotch doubles, and to be honest, it's probably best if you don't offer advice unless asked for it, as you will simply distract them from playing the shots they believe in.

Of course, the real lesson here is to avoid playing scotch doubles with someone who doesn't play a similar style to yourself.

Johnny Rosato · Aug 26, 2020

Are you one of those that tries to tell your partner how to shoot every shot and shakes head in disgust when they miss? Yet when you miss a duck or leave shitty shape everything is ok?
Tell me that ain't you.

Chili Palmer · Aug 26, 2020

The_JV said:
...and there's the reason I avoid playing scotch doubles...lol.

Honestly, you should know that you're potentially at the mercy of your partner. Despite your efforts to improve his play, I didn't see anything in the story that leads me to believe you couldn't have quit early.

Lesson learnt from the sounds of it. I would have paid my share as penance for the bad decision while knowing better.

I like scotch doubles but that was the first and last time I gambled on it - outside of friendly basement games with friends/league buddies.

Cornerman said:
^^^This^^^ (boldfaced). You don't have to play with him nor he with you ever again. Life's too short. In fact, I hardly ever gambled playing Scotch with someone that wasn't a player.

I had a great run in the mid 2000's (BCA and BCAPL/ACS leagues) where I won or came in 2nd well over half of the Scotch matches I played throughout New England (from Hartford to Portland and everywhere in betwen). Some were bar boxes, but also big tables, a crazy stretch of 15 or so tournaments, and only out of the money once and 3rd once. I had a multitude of partners, including winning a high/low partner draw, and I drew the tourney director's wife who was just there for support, and her presence made for an even number! We won undefeated! LOL.

I can point to the couple times where I didn't cash or I came in 3rd. Different partners, both excellent players. But we just didn't gel. It happens, and really shouldn't push it if doesn't happen.

I knew fairly early on it wasn't going to work but stuck with it. The money wasn't an issue and if a few things had turned around we probably could've evened it up.

Island Drive said:
Gambling with someone who doesn't take advice...what would you do?

Let em learn the ''hard way''.

I did, he paid me and we never played together again unless it was he and I in a little 1 on 1.

sjm said:
I experienced this exactly once, and it was pretty painful, but I quickly realized that it was best to let my partner do their thing and just never team up with that partner again.

The fact is that unless your partner views you as the superior player and strategist, you can't expect them to follow your recommendations in scotch doubles, and to be honest, it's probably best if you don't offer advice unless asked for it, as you will simply distract them from playing the shots they believe in.

Of course, the real lesson here is to avoid playing scotch doubles with someone who doesn't play a similar style to yourself.

If it wasn't scotch doubles I wouldn't have said much but in my experience it's very common for doubles partners to strategize and we did that and then he would go shoot something else.

Chili Palmer · Aug 26, 2020

Johnny Rosato said:
Are you one of those that tries to tell your partner how to shoot every shot and shakes head in disgust when they miss? Yet when you miss a duck or leave shitty shape everything is ok?
Tell me that ain't you.

LOL, no and given I'm a captain on an APA team I do have my chances

This was a scotch doubles match and as mentioned, in my experience the partners will generally discuss leaves, shots, etc.

gregcantrall · Aug 26, 2020

Scotch Doubles is a different animal.

We used to play it as a cheap ring game for fun. By group input the strongest player got the weakest and so on. The midget and I held our own. All had fun.
On another occasion my partner and I were not on speaking terms and tore up a $10 ring game. Scotch doubles is all about the chemistry. The best way to promote good chemistry is to STFU. The Rolling Log held a mixed scotch tournament that was draw for partner. They were short one lady so the house entered the cook. We won!

My #1 rule in Scotch is, don’t coach unless they ask for help.(I Zambia expert at Scotch!) If you provide advice without being asked........ you should pay double. Hope you learned a lesson.
The reason I quote as being why I love this game is: “I can always learn more.”

worktheknight · Aug 26, 2020

I have won local tournaments in Scotch and a 7 state tournament in
Scotch where the rules are no talking with partners while your turn
at the table. Love It
This situation, no, my opinion would let him shoot and either quit earlier
or just maybe the gals would take pity and buy a couple of rounds for me.

MattPoland · Aug 26, 2020

I like the rules where partners can’t talk at the table.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Chili Palmer · Aug 26, 2020

gregcantrall said:
Scotch Doubles is a different animal.
We used to play it as a cheap ring game for fun. By group input the strongest player got the weakest and so on. The midget and I held our own. All had fun.
On another occasion my partner and I were not on speaking terms and tore up a $10 ring game. Scotch doubles is all about the chemistry. The best way to promote good chemistry is to STFU. The Rolling Log held a mixed scotch tournament that was draw for partner. They were short one lady so the house entered the cook. We won!

My #1 rule in Scotch is, don’t coach unless they ask for help.(I Zambia expert at Scotch!) If you provide advice without being asked........ you should pay double. Hope you learned a lesson.
The reason I quote as being why I love this game is: “I can always learn more.”

For a couple of years I played at local bar tournament in Omaha and if there were too many people it would be random draw scotch doubles. Me and whoever won it quite a few times and we always had a blast.

This particular instance was different.

Chili Palmer · Aug 26, 2020

worktheknight said:
I have won local tournaments in Scotch and a 7 state tournament in
Scotch where the rules are no talking with partners while your turn
at the table. Love It
This situation, no, my opinion would let him shoot and either quit earlier
or just maybe the gals would take pity and buy a couple of rounds for me.

MattPoland said:
I like the rules where partners can’t talk at the table.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm a fan of watching it either way but prefer to be able to talk with partner if I'm playing. This can help if you're the lower skilled player.

ChrisinNC · Aug 26, 2020

In a scotch doubles format it’s always best to trust your partner’s skills and not constantly talk to each other every shot about what you each want to leave each other, etc. If you can’t trust your partner and they can’t trust you, you probably shouldn’t be playing partners with each other.

MattPoland · Aug 26, 2020

Chili Palmer said:
I'm a fan of watching it either way but prefer to be able to talk with partner if I'm playing. This can help if you're the lower skilled player.

I don’t like playing where partners can talk. I get it can be a learning experience. But there’s also two other players waiting for that conversation to end and someone to just shoot already. When it’s fine, it’s fine. When it’s bad, you never wanna play that format again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

maha · Aug 26, 2020

for a lousy 5 bucks you get mad at your partner because he doesnt play the way you want him to. and to top it off you expect to have him pay your share of the loss. thats a real dick move if your think of it.
and if you didnt like the game you could have quit at any time yourself. so basically you free rolled your not to be ever again friend.
you shouldnt gamble as you do not understand how it works.

The_JV · Aug 26, 2020

Although I said earlier that I avoid scotch doubles, (namely because whenever I'm asked it includes some level of action) I have played a few times for decent money while in vegas. Figure I'm there to gamble and probably still have better odds then at the card table.

In those instances I'm playing with a buddy who is also strong, and we know each other's game well enough that we don't really need to speak about how to approach a rack. Usually the goal is to simply not snooker each other. When two strong players are playing scotch I'd venture to say that nothing need be said at any point.

Oh, and in the games lost due to his mistakes. I never asked him to cover the entire bet.

iusedtoberich · Aug 26, 2020

It took you 30 years to ask? ha ha

I used to play a fair bit doubles for the cash with a couple of buddies of mine 20 years ago. We always told each other before agreeing to the game "do whatever you normally do". This made the experience very smooth for both players, IMO.

Also, alternate shot make the weakest player per team the deciding factor. Whearas alternate turn makes the strongest player per team the deciding factor.

Icon of Sin · Aug 26, 2020

Island Drive said:
Gambling with someone who doesn't take advice...what would you do?

Let em learn the ''hard way''.

If he is your partner then you are learning the hard way too.

I've played scotch before on a whim with people, I don't give advice, I do what I would do for myself and expect them to do the same. If I don't like it then we either don't play again, or work out our differences after the match and before the next one.

Edit to add: At 5 bucks a rack I dont think Id really give a shit... played scotch at 20 a rack before and we talked afterwards... kept it civil of course. Just wanted to make sure we are both on the same page before that game comes up again.

1on1pooltournys · Aug 26, 2020

This is why 1 on 1 pool tourneys the best way to go. Ya get all the glory when you win and can only blame your self when you lose...or the cueball, or the table, or the cloth, or the cue, or the guy across the room that sharked you, or your bad eyes, or the humidity :grin-square:

Do you recall the names of the females that hustled you two?

Gambling with someone who doesn't take advice...what would you do?

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