And there it goes..... negativity.
Splitting The Difference Aiming System
- Thread starter SpiderWebComm
- Start date
And there it goes..... negativity.
Oh, your comment claiming he had a stroke flaw wasn't negative? I'd say there could have been a number of better word choices. There is nothing wrong with an arched wrist position. I think it's the best and strongest way to achieve a straight stroke without unwanted manipulation.
Keith McCready played the opposite way with a BENT wrist position and had the back of his hand pointing upward to the ceiling. He played as strong as anyone for the money at his peak.
Flawed, right?
What would the right spot have to be with "stroke flawed" Landon if you played for 5 GRAND? Or would you never take the bet whatever you got?
There's a couple of good tips. Pre-cocking the wrist depending on whether your going to T or R. The finish of the wrist will end up being neutral at the end of the stroke.
Little Mike does the SkaB backwards. He starts at CCB to COB and then pivots to 1/4 ball. Same thing............only backwards.
Thanks Dave.
John
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Once again you have overreacted and derailed your own productive thread. I mentioned seeing this bent wrist in Landon's match with Earl back then, and at the time I thought it was just a flaw that he's learned to work with, but now maybe thinking it could've just been a TnR stroke on certain shots.
You replied with....
"A stroke flaw? LMAO He never misses! You have a lot to learn."
Then, to keep it real and not make-believe, I reminded you that he in fact did miss shots in that match, and that every player misses every now and then.
You replied again in a very defensive, unconstructive manner, going personal as you like to do. I never said anything negative about Landon. Pointing out a cocked wrist stroke and saying he's learned to work it, well, that's not bashing the guy. He is a great player and a smart kid/young man, despite the unconventional wrist cock in his very smooth and accurate stroke.
After watching some of that Landon vs Earl match again, I realize it's his natural stroke, not TnR shots. He makes it work like a pro.
Now all is good! If you had been more observant and didn't SPEAK PREMATURELY from a position of not knowing or the why's of what he or anyone else does with their grip or visuals in an aiming system, this would be a peaceful world and we'd probably be getting along quite well.
It IS a position that he in fact changed to arched and is now his natural setup and stroke. Just like Stan changed. But you DID get this one right here. (Didn't take anywhere near as long as the other part on another issue. But we'll leave that alone and be happy for now.)
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Cool. Knowing the traditional fundamental stroke guidelines is why Landon's stroke popped out as obviously not traditional. I watched Stan's pro stroke video and his grip lesson a few weeks ago, and he didn't appear to teach any unorthodox inward wrist bends like Landon's, or outward bends like McCready's.
Anyway, I'm all for using what works, and a good instructor wouldn't attempt to make changes if it's obvious there is no problem.
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If you have had a chance to study the 90-90 system by Ron Vitello you will see that these two systems are for the most part the same.
Ron taught me this about ten years ago. Line up center to center then swivel is what Ron taught me as a way to use English. In the 90-90 system for running English there are three point of aim before you swivel to add the English. Center to Center, center to 3/4 ball, and center to edge of the ball. All three aim points and then swivel to add outside English.
This works. I have been using it for years.
Ron taught me this about ten years ago. Line up center to center then swivel is what Ron taught me as a way to use English. In the 90-90 system for running English there are three point of aim before you swivel to add the English. Center to Center, center to 3/4 ball, and center to edge of the ball. All three aim points and then swivel to add outside English.
This works. I have been using it for years.
I tried it and it didn't work for me, but I use an LD shaft (314-2), do you use LD shaft also or...? (I'm asking for the StD system)
Ok so i tried STD With a vantage shaft that i had retapered. I shot some warm up shots 10 mins maybe. Figured id turn on my phone camera. Here is a rack of 9ball. First attempt Std style. Most shots but not all had a touch of outside. Couple i went right to the quarter or edge no pivot. No laughing ive been play 2.5 years... it was fun for me to make this.
Enjoy. https://youtu.be/9uFs76K9z_I
Enjoy. https://youtu.be/9uFs76K9z_I
Nice out. Most players with only 2.5 years experience would struggle running a rack of 9ball. You either have a great natural feel for the game or spend a lot of time on the table, or both.:smile:
On the six ball you say "Nineteen and a half....", then you say, "it's not a half ball hit." What were you doing to determine this? I mean, what is 19.5?
Looks like you found an aiming system that resonates with you and makes the game easier and more enjoyable for you. Good for you!
P.S.- Just so you know, your first shot one the one ball was a foul. It was a double hit. When you have the balls that close together, and the cb follows that quickly after the ob, you know it was double hit.
You should have drawn the cb back for the 2, or shot the 1 in the far pocket and followed it. Nice shooting for your time playing.
There's a couple of good tips. Pre-cocking the wrist depending on whether your going to T or R. The finish of the wrist will end up being neutral at the end of the stroke.
Little Mike does the SB backwards. He starts at CCB to COB and then pivots to 1/4 ball. Same thing............only backwards.
Thanks Dave.
John
Dave isn't talking about T&R here. He is talking about having the wrist pre-cocked through out the entire stroke with no neutral wrist as an aide to stability of the stroke.
Your method Brian. I wasnt going to let PRO 1 influence my decision making for Std. That shot was the only one i didnt know... until i used your method. So i picked center to center and pivot to quarter... i knew you would point this out! Great... it works. STD WORKS too. Mikes Std i still feel its a blend of methods. Which is fine shot recognition plays a role in it i believe.
As for playing... im a True blue Stan pro one guy. I understand his methods and his thinking. He and i have shared many emails on Cte. Ive spent alot of time in the past year with it on the table... ive got some stroke issues ive gotta work out. But hey im learning. I do understand whats going with most of these pivot methods...
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Yes in the video i called out foul on the one but kept going. The volume is low... turn up your speakers. I call out a few visuals. It was my very first rack and first video.... i fought the visuals with this method. Im a Cte pro1 shooter love Stans method and thinking on pool.
Oh, OK. My bad then. I had the volume off while multi-tasking.
Nice shooting Hogie. Just think in a year or so you'll be hitting them like JS.
John
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Right. Then straightening the wrist out as that final stroke comes to it's end.
I beg to differ.
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But here's what I did mean. You preset your hand and wrist in a precocked tuck or roll position and keep it that way.
End Quote
See post #83
John
I guess I should be the one to clear it up as far as what I posted. Here's what I posted:
" You preset your hand and wrist in a precocked tuck or roll position and keep it that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uar8s9kbqdI
I picked up on this in one of his videos and asked him if he knew he did it. It's in what is called an ARCHED wrist position with the hand tucked under and the wrist ARCHED or BOWED outward. A very strong locked wrist position. There's only one possible way to go from here which is roll it back to a neutral or bent position. He can't tuck any further because he's already there. It never changes from setup, to backstroke, to impact, to follow through.
He said yes, he knows he does it because a pro player told him about this setup and why it was the best and strong way to play. He said it took a while to get used to it after all the years of being neutral, but it's definitely the better way to stroke and play the game."
Neil said this: "Dave isn't talking about T&R here. He is talking about having the wrist pre-cocked through out the entire stroke with no neutral wrist as an aide to stability of the stroke."
Yes, I did say to PRESET your wrist in a tuck or rolled position but I did mean what Neil stated.
I guess it was confusing from my wording but Stan's grip and arched wrist is in a preset tuck position but he strokes straight through with no other turning or manipulation one way or another.
He can't TUCK any further. The only thing he could do to put a funky stroke on it would be to hinge or bend it the other way but he's very locked in.
Somebody pointed out to me that Dustin Johnson arches his left wrist in the golf swing and he's the #1 golfer in the world right now. He also drives it longer than anyone else on the PGA tour. It's a strong position.
Analysis of a typical wrist position:
http://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/pro-ignature-move/dustin-johnsons-bowed-left-wrist/
Dustin Johnson Strong Arched/Bowed Wrist in Action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3NbAAaEURI
" You preset your hand and wrist in a precocked tuck or roll position and keep it that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uar8s9kbqdI
I picked up on this in one of his videos and asked him if he knew he did it. It's in what is called an ARCHED wrist position with the hand tucked under and the wrist ARCHED or BOWED outward. A very strong locked wrist position. There's only one possible way to go from here which is roll it back to a neutral or bent position. He can't tuck any further because he's already there. It never changes from setup, to backstroke, to impact, to follow through.
He said yes, he knows he does it because a pro player told him about this setup and why it was the best and strong way to play. He said it took a while to get used to it after all the years of being neutral, but it's definitely the better way to stroke and play the game."
Neil said this: "Dave isn't talking about T&R here. He is talking about having the wrist pre-cocked through out the entire stroke with no neutral wrist as an aide to stability of the stroke."
Yes, I did say to PRESET your wrist in a tuck or rolled position but I did mean what Neil stated.
I guess it was confusing from my wording but Stan's grip and arched wrist is in a preset tuck position but he strokes straight through with no other turning or manipulation one way or another.
He can't TUCK any further. The only thing he could do to put a funky stroke on it would be to hinge or bend it the other way but he's very locked in.
Somebody pointed out to me that Dustin Johnson arches his left wrist in the golf swing and he's the #1 golfer in the world right now. He also drives it longer than anyone else on the PGA tour. It's a strong position.
Analysis of a typical wrist position:
http://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/pro-ignature-move/dustin-johnsons-bowed-left-wrist/
Dustin Johnson Strong Arched/Bowed Wrist in Action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3NbAAaEURI
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