Gotcha. Now I understand. Like C.L.A.P.
Splitting The Difference Aiming System
- Thread starter SpiderWebComm
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Gotcha. Now I understand. Like C.L.A.P.
Earlier in this thread I posted Stan's video of him teaching Shishkabob and pointed out his grip/stroke which has an arched/bowed wrist position.
Here are additional pictures of a certain player who also has the arched/bowed wrist. It seems to work for him
occasionally. But, what does he know. Check it out.
Here are additional pictures of a certain player who also has the arched/bowed wrist. It seems to work for him
occasionally. But, what does he know. Check it out.
Man.....my eyes hurt reading so much!! LOL
Following the exact instructions, "splitting the difference" between the chosen reference line and ob edge, you get it to work from a distance? Or do you make it work by NOT splitting the difference. That's all I was saying, with my shaft, when I apply BHE (which is how I use english most of the time) the CB squirts a little but not enough to say this StD is accurate once the margin of error is less than about 2°. Shishkabob is entirely different and does not rely on tweaking the squirt to make the angles work.
So you give a thumbs up to StD exactly as shown in these clips? I'm not talking about working with it and figuring out your own unique reference points or pivots. That makes it your system, not Mike's StD. I've done this exact stuff years ago to get a feel for effects of english at varying distances with different cues, do I understand how you make it work by experimenting and repeating, iow.....rote.
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Earlier in this thread I posted Stan's video of him teaching Shishkabob and pointed out his grip/stroke which has an arched/bowed wrist position.
Here are additional pictures of a certain player who also has the arched/bowed wrist. It seems to work for him
occasionally. But, what does he know. Check it out.
Very slightly inward wrist position, but not what I'd call cocked/bent wrist. Who is this guy anyway? What does he know?
Very slightly inward wrist position, but not what I'd call cocked/bent wrist. Who is this guy anyway? What does he know?
Look at the first picture on top. He is CURLED UNDER quite a bit. I never used the words cocked/bent. It isn't the correct term
The term is ARCHED/BOWED and all three pictures show it, especially the first. It's obvious by the way his wrist is rounded and the bone is protruding along with the palm of his hand more underneath the butt instead of facing directly toward his hip.
I also never said the curling under needed to be severe.
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Man.....my eyes hurt reading so much!! LOL
I totally understand. Good thing I haven't done any videos or my head would be spinning like when you post yours. :grin:
Following the exact instructions, "splitting the difference" between the chosen reference line and ob edge, you get it to work from a distance?
Depends on the distance.
Or do you make it work by NOT splitting the difference.
Depends on the distance. See below.
That's all I was saying, with my shaft, when I apply BHE (which is how I use english most of the time) the CB squirts a little but not enough to say this StD is accurate once the margin of error is less than about 2°. Shishkabob is entirely different and does not rely on tweaking the squirt to make the angles work.
True about original Shiskabob.
So you give a thumbs up to StD exactly as shown in these clips?
As shown in the clips, yes. Because of how he sets it up for the angles illustrated.
I'm not talking about working with it and figuring out your own unique reference points or pivots. That makes it your system, not Mike's StD. I've done this exact stuff years ago to get a feel for effects of english at varying distances with different cues, do I understand how you make it work by experimenting and repeating, iow.....rote.
HERE IS MY POST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD:
"I've picked up on some loose ends and discrepancies also. In the beginning of the first video he starts off showing either aiming center to center and then pivoting the tip of the cue to 1/4 ball and then makes the shot. That's OK for the cut angle he has on the table or how he illustrates some of the other cut angles that are more acute. Or he aims a CCB to 1/4 OB with no pivot.
What he doesn't show are the lesser cut angles where a straight center to center hit would strike a rail two inches or more away from a pocket opening. With a pivot from CCB to 1/4 OB it would result in an overcut and hit another rail in front of a pocket.
This is when it has to be measured in cue tip width for a pivot from CCB to just outside of COB to make the shot and prevent an overcut."
If we had done this as I was going to do by way of PM, you would have had MY version with tip increments before I found out this one even existed. It applies to his other aim points in addition to center to center. Again, it's DISTANCE and ANGLE RELATED.
Is it a good system? It's an EXCELLENT system. At least the way I figured it out years ago.
COMPRENDE?
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Si......comprendo un poco. You make it work by experimenting with it. Every player will have his or her own way of making it work. Then if you change cues or shafts you may have to tune that shaft to the technique as well, if the deflection is considerably different.
11 Years ago I did experiment with it from SCRATCH and had to because I learned Shiskabob from Hal which had NO OUTSIDE PIVOT. I wanted to see if CCB to OUTSIDE would work. It did and it does. Inside to center is still better.
Hey, what do you want from Little Mike. He did a FREEBIE YOUTUBE. Didn't even charge $10 bucks or more like some others.
For the shallow cuts or other aim points AFTER PIVOT, it would have been quite a bit more accurate if he added a 1/8 spot or 5/8 spot, that's all. He didn't need to get into TIP FRACTIONS like I did and I did it because I'm an OCD perfectionist with sh*t like this for my own benefit and usage.
If a LD shaft or ultra small tip is that off with the system from the beginning, nobody should beat their brains in trying to figure it out. Just abandon it and go to what does easily. No need to nit pick it, degrade it, or bad mouth either.
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I think more players should experiment like you have, creatively trying to figure things out. I think it gives you a better overall knowledge of how things work in this game. I'm OCD with stuff like this also....always have been. Came up with a bunch of different ways to aim with english, ways to bank, to kick, or do whatever can be done with pool balls on a pool table. I'd see something in a book and automatically start thinking of a different way to do the same thing. Or hear something somebody says and think, "no way, that can't be how it works". It's really OCD to work things out on paper, then take it to the table to see if it really works as shown on paper.
SPIDER can you shoot a video for us? The info you have posted on Sbob is accurate extremely accurate. I'd rather come in from the inside too. Because its easier to use any form of english. When i made STD VIDEO. i made little tweaks like center of shaft was pointed at the quarter or the edge of my shaft was on the quarter after the pivot. I felt my way around the STD STYLE even on long shots. But what i learned was outside english and the gearing affect. It forced me to shoot the shots. My next step is to shoot every shot with inside english. Kinda of reverse Std style. Like for a near straight in aim center cue to quarter and pivot back to center ob....take mental notes of what happens.
From a true SBOB STYLE you can backhead english anyway you want!
I aslo give the Std Dirty Mike method a thumbs up! There is something to be learned with it. It works... like with anything else pay attention to how the ball react to one another. Make small adjustments file it away in the mental tool box.
If you could id like to see a video on Sbob...? Im sure this thread has Stans attention... im like dieing here for his visual version coming! I really enjoy these aiming methods.
From a true SBOB STYLE you can backhead english anyway you want!
I aslo give the Std Dirty Mike method a thumbs up! There is something to be learned with it. It works... like with anything else pay attention to how the ball react to one another. Make small adjustments file it away in the mental tool box.
If you could id like to see a video on Sbob...? Im sure this thread has Stans attention... im like dieing here for his visual version coming! I really enjoy these aiming methods.
I'm not one to complain about folks that don't offer constructive criticism to a subject.
Those folks that don't offer educated comments on a subject that they do not have direct first hand knowledge of or qualified should probably state their comments elsewhere.
At present I use 5 different ball pocketing methods. Each method comes up in just about every match I play and I like that, it makes me think.
Is one better than the other..........who knows. They work for me. And I'm always open to more ball pocketing methods.
I like this forum and do not participate in none educational comments or remarks.
Those of you know who are constructive and those of you know who are not constructive.
This forum should be informational and not confrontational.
I'll leave it at that and let Mr. Wilson decide. He does a pretty good job. Thanks.
John
Those folks that don't offer educated comments on a subject that they do not have direct first hand knowledge of or qualified should probably state their comments elsewhere.
At present I use 5 different ball pocketing methods. Each method comes up in just about every match I play and I like that, it makes me think.
Is one better than the other..........who knows. They work for me. And I'm always open to more ball pocketing methods.
I like this forum and do not participate in none educational comments or remarks.
Those of you know who are constructive and those of you know who are not constructive.
This forum should be informational and not confrontational.
I'll leave it at that and let Mr. Wilson decide.
He does a pretty good job. Thanks.John
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This post was reported by multiple people. The flames have been removed and hopefully things can go back to the constructive conversation that was going on.
Spider, Dan.
Drop it. I will contact you both privately.
Mike
Spider, Dan.
Drop it. I will contact you both privately.
Mike
So tonight i played for 4 hours with this. Learned alot more. For me and my shaft.
I added more aim points. Basically i used the quartes along wtith thicker or thinner on the quarters! Every shot had a touch of outside never more than half a tip. I used the vertical line to get shape. I would determine center quarter or edge. Cue right on the vertical ccb then pivot to what i needed. Let say if i choose ctc but not quite pivot to the quarter. My shaft would split the vertical line on cb maybe 3/4 of my tip would be on the vertical line on cue ball. Note i could sight right down the intside of my shaft to the aim points on ob. This worked like a champ. The edge of my shaft nevet leaves the vertical line of cue ball. So there is always a touch of outside english. Inside english worked the same way just the opposite. little tricky but it works.. again for inside my the edge of shaft never leaves vertical. I could look right down the edge to my aim points both ways. For super thin cuts line up ccb to edge but from center cb line your shaft inner edge to edge of ob then pivot so your shaft edge is on the vertical line of cb this is for outside english. Sounds complicated but it isn't it works like a freaking champ. My bridge for the most part was around 10 to 12 inches it didn't matter. I just made adjustments on my aim points as needed and it wasn't hard to figure out. I like the gear affect throwing balls. Getting shape.with a little spin i didnt have to stroke so hard to get shape. I found Std to be alot of fun.... although i modified it a little bit to suit my needs. One more thing my alignment was looking straight down the shaft at the aim points then I would pivot just backhand. No hip pivot. final solution I'd be looking down an angled cue shaft to final aimpoint. Hope this helps.
So whats the deal is this a form of shish kabob or not? Whatever it is i like it alot! I'll make another video to show the aim points how I've been using for you guys if you think it would help..?
I added more aim points. Basically i used the quartes along wtith thicker or thinner on the quarters! Every shot had a touch of outside never more than half a tip. I used the vertical line to get shape. I would determine center quarter or edge. Cue right on the vertical ccb then pivot to what i needed. Let say if i choose ctc but not quite pivot to the quarter. My shaft would split the vertical line on cb maybe 3/4 of my tip would be on the vertical line on cue ball. Note i could sight right down the intside of my shaft to the aim points on ob. This worked like a champ. The edge of my shaft nevet leaves the vertical line of cue ball. So there is always a touch of outside english. Inside english worked the same way just the opposite. little tricky but it works.. again for inside my the edge of shaft never leaves vertical. I could look right down the edge to my aim points both ways. For super thin cuts line up ccb to edge but from center cb line your shaft inner edge to edge of ob then pivot so your shaft edge is on the vertical line of cb this is for outside english. Sounds complicated but it isn't it works like a freaking champ. My bridge for the most part was around 10 to 12 inches it didn't matter. I just made adjustments on my aim points as needed and it wasn't hard to figure out. I like the gear affect throwing balls. Getting shape.with a little spin i didnt have to stroke so hard to get shape. I found Std to be alot of fun.... although i modified it a little bit to suit my needs. One more thing my alignment was looking straight down the shaft at the aim points then I would pivot just backhand. No hip pivot. final solution I'd be looking down an angled cue shaft to final aimpoint. Hope this helps.
So whats the deal is this a form of shish kabob or not? Whatever it is i like it alot! I'll make another video to show the aim points how I've been using for you guys if you think it would help..?
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I'd call it shishkabob with a twist, or the other side of shiskabob.
Sure, it's a form of shiskabob. You're still "skewering" the two balls with your stick like food on a stick for shishkabob. It's a stick aiming system.
Absolutely on the video.
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There was one interesting question on the latest StD video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEsG4KJbuLI):
"One thing I’m not quite understanding, when you pivot are you now off center on the cue ball?"
And FaDa Vlogs answered:
"still hitting center of cue ball."
How is that possible?
"One thing I’m not quite understanding, when you pivot are you now off center on the cue ball?"
And FaDa Vlogs answered:
"still hitting center of cue ball."
How is that possible?
Can you provide the time into the video where he says that? But even without seeing it, I agree. How is that possible? Center CB is where you end up with Hal's Shishkabob but you're starting from inside pivoting to center. Not when you start at center pivoting to outside.
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Okay, I give it a shot. This isn't easy for me to put into words. Here we go.
Say your shooting a shot to the left. The cue ball values would be 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. (left to right)
You want to shoot at 75%. Starting off you line up the OB, QB and center of shaft to hit the QB at 50%. (straight shot).
Then you pivot your whole body to 75%, the new shot line. ( the cue will still be on center QB and pointed at 75%) and shoot. Pivoting just your shooting arm will put right spin on the QB. Now if you like you can add spin, just try to keep one side of the cue shaft or the other on the vertical center line of the QB
Dave, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks
I also posted the above on the link you shared. We'll see what Ken's reply is.
Hope this helps.
John
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Okay, I give it a shot. This isn't easy for me to put into words. Here we go.
Say your shooting a shot to the left. The cue ball values would be 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. (left to right)
You want to shoot at 75%. Starting off you line up the OB, QB and center of shaft to hit the QB at 50%. (straight shot).
Then you pivot your whole body to 75%, the new shot line. ( the cue will still be on center QB and pointed at 75%) and shoot. Pivoting just your shooting arm will put right spin on the QB. Now if you like you can add spin, just try to keep one side of the cue shaft or the other on the vertical center line of the QB
Dave, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks
I also posted the above on the link you shared. We'll see what Ken's reply is.
Hope this helps.
John
That would work but I don't see the reason for contorting the body or arm with a pivot to get there from CCB. He might as well be straight on from CCB to a 75% fractional alignment with no pivot.
With an outside pivot, the INSIDE EDGE of the TIP will still be on CCB if that's what he means but not the entire tip.
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Okay, I give it a shot. This isn't easy for me to put into words. Here we go.
Say your shooting a shot to the left. The cue ball values would be 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. (left to right)
You want to shoot at 75%. Starting off you line up the OB, QB and center of shaft to hit the QB at 50%. (straight shot).
Then you pivot your whole body to 75%, the new shot line. ( the cue will still be on center QB and pointed at 75%) and shoot. Pivoting just your shooting arm will put right spin on the QB. Now if you like you can add spin, just try to keep one side of the cue shaft or the other on the vertical center line of the QB
Dave, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks
I also posted the above on the link you shared. We'll see what Ken's reply is.
Hope this helps.
John
Quoting my own post.
Or, you can try what I do. From a standing position I align my body and QB like I was going to shoot straight into the OB. Then my eyes shift to 75% and I get down into the shooting position on the new shot line.
The same thing when using "split the difference #2"
I'm having fun messing around with this (new to me) pocketing method.
John
Quoting my own post.
Or, you can try what I do. From a standing position I align my body and QB like I was going to shoot straight into the OB. Then my eyes shift to 75% and I get down into the shooting position on the new shot line.
The same thing when using "split the difference #2"
I'm having fun messing around with this (new to me) pocketing method.
John
Are you pretty much doing Stan's visual version of it in the video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uar8s9kbqdI