Turning Stone - Archer Forfeit vs SVB?

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For me, if the ball didn’t move, I don’t think an opponent should call it....
....ONLY a referee.
It’s one of those fouls where Johnny wouldn’t know it he fouled or not.

If Johnny didn't think he touched it he should have held his ground. Ref is not there and call goes to him.

They call a ref then he might go to video.

To just quit is self defeating...literally.
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Letter vs Spirit

The ball didn't appear to move, certainly wasn't obvious after the shot. Shane could have warned Johnny it looked like his shirt had touched the ball. Perhaps some past history of nitpicking on Johnny's part, Shane called the foul. Johnny could have denied the foul and that would have been the end of things, no ref. Instead Johnny accepted the foul.
That sound like the right approach.
I am not a lawyer (or as Jim Carey would say “liar”) but in Law 101, this is letter vs spirit of law situation.
Strictly applying the letter of the rule , this is a foul on a technicality (shirt touching ball) but the spirit of the rule (i.e. ball did not move) should be applied here and this be deemed as no foul.
Calling on a technicality is not uncommon in other games/ sports . In chess, there is a ridiculous “touch-move” rule. If you accidentally touch one of your pieces in chess , your opponent can apply the letter of the rule and insist you move the piece on a technicality even though you do not intend to move it.


If whatever this version of the rules is anything like all ball fouls, it is a foul to touch the ball whether it moves or not. You see it called regularly in snooker events and in properly refereed pool events from Europe (like the Matchroom events). So to me it’s a foul and should be called as such.

Now if it is some version where the ball has to move before it’s a foul, then it doesn’t look like a foul to me.

By the way, I was just at an event here in Toronto with Stephen Hendry and Jimmy White and local legend Cliff Thorburn. One of Cliff’s stories was Cliff being on the hill against Jimmy in a final of a major tournament and Jimmy calling a foul on himself that nobody saw. Cliff ran out and that was that.

Jimmy White has always been a real gentleman. Maybe that is why he failed to win countless World Championship finals. LOL
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If Johnny didn't think he touched it he should have held his ground. Ref is not there and call goes to him.

They call a ref then he might go to video.

To just quit is self defeating...literally.

Yes... but it is not that simple.
Pro players always try to get edge. That call of foul was sharking.
IMO.
Even there is debate and that goes to Johnny´s way. SVB still broke the comeback rhythm and my guess is that Johnny probably got full of adrenaline and noticed he probably can´t perform. He then chose to make his statement to SVB about that and did forfeit.

I was huge SVB fan before. When I entered DCC 2 years ago and saw him live making corner ball on 9-ball every time with 10-ball break that ended there(almost middle of table).
He still have some respect from me but I hope I don´t see more grey area stuff from him.
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not knowing the history between both players.
Not knowing what else is going in their lives outside
of pool.
Sometimes these things make a big difference in these
types of situations.

The call of foul by Shane seems a bit unnecessary.
But, Johnny just forfeiting afterwards is just as bad.

All ball fouls, guy calls it, you look at your baggy shirt
and say well, ok rules are rules. I see your trying to
be a bit of a dick but I'll take it on the chin and carry on.
Hopefully karma will get yo a$$.

I'm far from perfect but this situation looks unsportsmanlike on both sides of the ball.
 

poolpimp13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
7 ball did not appear to move. Doesn't look like a foul.

I don't have a dog in that fight but from what I see Archer was correct.
Lost some respect for Shane he said Johnny shirt touched the seven ball but waits till Johnny pockets the ball to call it you can see clearly there was no foul it was a ***** move he saw Johnny was playing good called this bull shit foul Johnny should have told him to go f him self.
 

poolpimp13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lost some respect for Shane he said Johnny shirt touched the seven ball but waits till Johnny pockets the ball to call it you can see clearly there was no foul it was a ***** move he saw Johnny was playing good called this bull shit foul Johnny should have told him to go f him self.

Karma will get Shane already has huge advantage can turn off his hearing aids were he hears nothing still can't win a world title Johnny or earl would have robbed him in there prime both won world titles on tougher equipment.
 

poolscholar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All ball fouls without a ref is a joke. As well as racking for your opponent... Turning Stone, forever stuck in the 20th century
 

wayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And they used to be such good friends. Oh well, that's Pool!

I just watched the video above. That was a chicken sh-t call by Shane! He must be having a bad year.

Johnny should have never conceded it. It was Johnny's call since there was no ref and he should have said no foul because he obviously didn't agree. If they were allowed to go to the tape then Shane might have got the call if Johnny's shirt actually touched the ball but still TICKY-TACK on Shane's part.
 
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SJpilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If Johnny Thought he was right he shouldn't have conceded absolutely. However I wouldn't crucify Shane. It may look Ticky Tack and it did, but when money is involved the letter of the law goes farther than the spirit I reckon. I'd personally be pissed if I threw a bunch of money at someone in a Calcutta and lost it cause they didn't call an actual foul due to some sense of etiquette. But that might just be the degenerate gambler in me.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the ball doesn't move, I'm not going to call a foul. I might mention that it touched; but i'd also say I didn't want a foul for it. Just roll up your sleeve, and keep playing. No harm, no foul.

Are you playing in a tournament for your lively hood so you can eat and pay your bills ? Nope Things change when you are. I wouldn’t call it in my local tournament or league. Either.


Btw the pic thats on here is after Johnny shot the ball and stood up and svb called the foul Johnny tried to go back down to see how he could of touched it.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you playing in a tournament for your lively hood so you can eat and pay your bills ? Nope Things change when you are. I wouldn’t call it in my local tournament or league. Either.

I thought his bills were being paid by shrewd real estate investments?
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lost some respect for Shane he said Johnny shirt touched the seven ball but waits till Johnny pockets the ball to call it you can see clearly there was no foul it was a ***** move he saw Johnny was playing good called this bull shit foul Johnny should have told him to go f him self.

Exactly. Why concede the match?
Just let him shoot if you think you touched it or tell him to BTFO. The refs would back him.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
If I remember correctly...you aren’t allowed to touch the ball you’re jacked up over...
...which is sensible IMO.....Mike could’ve been called to clarify

That's correct. Customarily, if you move the ball you are jacked up over, or the ball over which you are jumping over or masse-ing around, it's a foul whether you are playing cue ball fouls only or all ball fouls.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you playing in a tournament for your lively hood so you can eat and pay your bills ? Nope Things change when you are. I wouldn’t call it in my local tournament or league. Either.


Btw the pic thats on here is after Johnny shot the ball and stood up and svb called the foul Johnny tried to go back down to see how he could of touched it.

I would just let it go, and it wouldn't matter if I was playing for my bills.

Just for the simple fact that it didn't affect the outcome of the shot in any way.

That's me though, and I really can't fault someone if they choose to call it on their opponent.
 

TheLoneSilencer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another dick move by Shane which comes as no surprise. His true colors have started to show the last couple of years from his rack mechanic bs to pulling moves like this on Johnny.
 

kaznj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I saw Johnny do this at a straight pool tournament. Against Joe Landy. Johnny jumped out of his seat so fast I couldn't believe it. Joe said he was playing his idol so I think Joe believed Johnny was just playing by the rules.
 

billiards102

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the rule is that just "touching" a ball is a foul, I don't see how the overhead video posted in this thread could determine that. It would seem a sideview angle would be necessary to see a touch, which is where Shane was located.

Regarding the reference to the Shane / Alcano match posted. I remember that happened during the Pacman 10-ball tourney over in the Phillipines a few years back. Shane had ran out, made a straight in and obvious shot in the side and forgot to call the 10-ball. The referee overseeing the match called a foul on Shane.
 
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