Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > 14.1 Pool
Reload this Page WHo's your pick? RObles or Hohmann for World Straight Pool Champ
Reply
Page 4 of 4 « First 234
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#46)
stevekur1
The "COMMISH"
stevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond repute
 
stevekur1's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 5,216
vCash: 4700
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
   
09-06-2018, 07:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolmanis View Post
In Europe peoples donīt really play 14.1. They practice it solo. Better players a LOT.
Only time they normally play it, is on tournaments. 14.1 Tournaments are quite rare still. Normally maybe one or 2 national tournaments per year + possible European Championships.
Anyways. It is number one practice for strong players(at least somewhere during their improvement).
I try always get 14.1 matches when I can. Normally I get 2-7 per year and if i happen to run 80-100(100 point game) my opponents normally donīt play it again.

Edit: maybe they play more 14.1 on Germany(Rattaīs post)
is there any video of the European Championships ?


PETE TONKIN CUSTOM CUES

Bayshore Billiards 14.1 League ~ Facebook Page ----> https://www.facebook.com/Bayshorebilliardsstraightpool

High Runs:

2018 - In Game - 97
2018 - Practice - 136
2011 - Highest on Video - 50

50 ball evaluation by Blackjack David Sapolis -->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiBfKo85z4g
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#47)
Poolmanis
AzB Silver Member
Poolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolmanis's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oulu, Finland
   
09-07-2018, 01:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
is there any video of the European Championships ?
Kozoom have archives. I believe some matches were found free. I look for it


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#48)
Poolmanis
AzB Silver Member
Poolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolmanis's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oulu, Finland
   
09-07-2018, 02:01 AM

https://www.facebook.com/europeanpoc...0125635410897/

I havenīt seen that. It was freebie Feijen vs. Nolle
Epbf have stuff on facebook. I believe it is only place where you can find Kozoom free videos. Whole year on Kozoom Subs is 99€ if I remember right.(you can see all Eurotours/WC and a LOT of carambole with it too.)
They normally have commentary in only few matches.
We took it half/half with my little sister. I could see all 60 tables from European Champs . It was a lot of fun see all Finnish Matches. I could not watch it if my sister was watching thought..

If you have friend who likes to see 3 cushion you could then take it easily half/half and both can see a lot of tournaments.


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be

Last edited by Poolmanis; 09-07-2018 at 02:10 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#49)
stevekur1
The "COMMISH"
stevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond reputestevekur1 has a reputation beyond repute
 
stevekur1's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 5,216
vCash: 4700
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
   
09-07-2018, 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolmanis View Post
https://www.facebook.com/europeanpoc...0125635410897/

I havenīt seen that. It was freebie Feijen vs. Nolle
Epbf have stuff on facebook. I believe it is only place where you can find Kozoom free videos. Whole year on Kozoom Subs is 99€ if I remember right.(you can see all Eurotours/WC and a LOT of carambole with it too.)
They normally have commentary in only few matches.
We took it half/half with my little sister. I could see all 60 tables from European Champs . It was a lot of fun see all Finnish Matches. I could not watch it if my sister was watching thought..

If you have friend who likes to see 3 cushion you could then take it easily half/half and both can see a lot of tournaments.

Thanks Bro, now have some vodka !!

The link you provided does not work.

will look into the kazoom thing. i have plenty of 3 Cusion Junkie Friends

-Steve


PETE TONKIN CUSTOM CUES

Bayshore Billiards 14.1 League ~ Facebook Page ----> https://www.facebook.com/Bayshorebilliardsstraightpool

High Runs:

2018 - In Game - 97
2018 - Practice - 136
2011 - Highest on Video - 50

50 ball evaluation by Blackjack David Sapolis -->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiBfKo85z4g
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#50)
Bob Jewett
Northern California

Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 14,536
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
09-07-2018, 10:31 AM

Since no one seems to have pointed it out yet in this thread, I will....

While this may be been a good tournament with several strong players, it was not a World Championship. The Dragon event has not been an official WC for several years. I believe only their first five (maybe four?) events were sanctioned by the WPA.

Two other tournaments probably have stronger fields now, the European Championships and the American 14.1. The latter has gotten much stronger fields over the last three or four years. I hope Peter Burrows can find enough added money to make it an official WC.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#51)
AtLarge
AzB Gold Member
AtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond reputeAtLarge has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,755
vCash: 500
iTrader: 76 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2008
   
09-07-2018, 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
... While this may be been a good tournament with several strong players, it was not a World Championship. The Dragon event has not been an official WC for several years. I believe only their first five (maybe four?) events were sanctioned by the WPA. ...
The WPA website shows world champions in straight pool for just 4 years -- 2006 (Hohmann), 2007 (Ortmann), 2008 (Feijen), and 2010 (Ortmann). So, 4 out of Dragon's first 5 events.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#52)
Cameron Smith
is kind of hungry...
Cameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond reputeCameron Smith has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,096
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wouldn't you like to know
   
09-09-2018, 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
The WPA website shows world champions in straight pool for just 4 years -- 2006 (Hohmann), 2007 (Ortmann), 2008 (Feijen), and 2010 (Ortmann). So, 4 out of Dragon's first 5 events.
I always felt bad for Stephan Cohen. He won in 2009 against the same caliber field as Ortmann, same venue and same tables. The only thing that keeps him from being listed as a world champion is sanctioning. I just found it to be pretty brutal. I also wish it was sanctioned the same year the Mika won it since he got very close a number of years. But the field isn't as strong as it was in the early years.


I would kill for a nobel peace prize
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#53)
sjm
Sweating it at the Derby
sjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond repute
 
sjm's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 14,381
vCash: 525
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York, NY
   
09-10-2018, 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratta View Post
Well sjm-

i have the (seriously) greatest respect for you Person :-)
But i think, that Toastie is in straight pool the guy- since a longer time. I m a fan as well talking about the "old legend".
But if we have a look at Hohman- and some of his "records" in wtiraight pool tournaments- with STRONG fiels. Or just taking the time, where he was still playin in germany- These results are speakin the truth Buddy.

Iirc his General average in one European Championship was 60+ (and we COUNT every inning, including every safety, opening shot etc).

To Play 60+ over a complete tournament, packed with strong guys-- that s a Statement.
As you said-- the european Championships is packed with good Players. I don t think there is a single Player who never ran out a straight pool match in one inning. (talking about a full field of Players).

But here, like in USA-- straight pool also became a bit more *forgotten*. But you see immediatley, that the really strong guys also Play straight pool.
I also agree, that the game changed, also because of better material. But let s have a look a John Schmidt. His high runs on TOUGH tables showing clearly, how strong the ppl nowadays became technically. I think that s the biggest difference- that we now have hundreds of guys who re able to run 100+ (or more).

having some students atm- which are playin 4th and 3th Division here in leage---- and both ran just numbers, where some ppl can just dream of- and that s almot normal here in germany. running 300 in two innings- two days later two 100+ again in a row.
and he never won something in 14.1 in big chmpaionships.

And in Hohmans time here in germany, the fields have been packed with such guys. all the time, without exception.
and that s the reason imo, why Toastie is so good: he was always forced to Play world class pool, to have a Chance to win here in league, or whereever. (and of course next to his work ethic).


sorry for the typo-- mobile phone killin me

have a smooth stroke.
A generally well-reasoned post and we're together on the matter of whether Hohmann is an all-time great.

I think you've oversimplified the comparison between this and the "legend" generation of straight pool.

For starters, several of the old guard ran over 300 on 10 foot tables. Could today's players do that? We got a glimpse of it at the Derby City Classic one year (?2013?). That year, after five full days of qualifying attempts in which virtually every big name tried to qualify (Hohmann among them), only one player had a qualifying run of over 100, and it was snooker player named Pettman. Of the pool players, Feijen ran in the low 90's and no one else managed over 90. It took about 70 to qualify for the single elimination stage. By comparison, it takes about 130 or 140 to qualify when the nine footer is used at the Derby.

Another tricky consideration is that today's players play with better pool balls than the old guard (the old composition balls were much worse than today's sets) and today's players get to play on Simonis, rather than on a slow nappy cloth of yesteryear. Not only was position play more difficult back then, but the balls didn't spread nearly as well on the break shots. Of course, today's tables are tighter, offsetting much of this.

Also, contrary to what you suggest, there were hundreds of guys who could run 100 back in the hey day of straight pool, in some cases twenty of them playing in a single pool hall.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#54)
Seth C.
AzB Silver Member
Seth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 173
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2014
   
09-10-2018, 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
For starters, several of the old guard ran over 300 on 10 foot tables. Could today's players do that? We got a glimpse of it at the Derby City Classic one year (?2013?). That year, after five full days of qualifying attempts in which virtually every big name tried to qualify (Hohmann among them), only one player had a qualifying run of over 100, and it was snooker player named Pettman. Of the pool players, Feijen ran in the low 90's and no one else managed over 90. It took about 70 to qualify for the single elimination stage. By comparison, it takes about 130 or 140 to qualify when the nine footer is used at the Derby.
While I agree that changes in equipment -- especially faster cloth, which results in more balls being opened up with less force -- are an advantage for today's players, I'm not sure I see how the ten foot table example supports the argument that the old timers were better. They got to play on ten foot tables all the time! If the participants at the Derby Challenge in 2013(?) had played on ten footers their whole lives, they would have run more balls. As it was, they were playing in totally unfamiliar space.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#55)
Positively Ralf
AzB Silver Member
Positively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond reputePositively Ralf has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 405
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: A little place called Westchester County
   
09-11-2018, 06:18 AM

I quit trying to compare players from yesteryear to players in the present. And that is with all sports. Different eras and the games are just too different. Look at baseball as an example. The general idea stays the same, but playing conditions and the way they go about things are too different to try to compare.

for me, comparisons are just fun conversations to have with friends.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#56)
sjm
Sweating it at the Derby
sjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond reputesjm has a reputation beyond repute
 
sjm's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 14,381
vCash: 525
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York, NY
   
09-11-2018, 07:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth C. View Post
While I agree that changes in equipment -- especially faster cloth, which results in more balls being opened up with less force -- are an advantage for today's players, I'm not sure I see how the ten foot table example supports the argument that the old timers were better. They got to play on ten foot tables all the time! If the participants at the Derby Challenge in 2013(?) had played on ten footers their whole lives, they would have run more balls. As it was, they were playing in totally unfamiliar space.
Nice post.

I would agree with this and I can extend this line of reasoning to say that if this era were a continuation of the straight pool era, and straight pool was the game the top guys played most of the time, the players today would be better than the old masters, and the top fifty of this era would be substantially better, as a group, than the top fifty of any era. That may or may not mean that Hohmann, the obvious best of this era, would have been better than the best of the early 14.1 masters (Willie Mosconi, Ralph Greenleaf, Irving Crane) or the best of the later 14.1 masters (Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner) but he certainly might have been.

My comments were largely motivated by Ratta's incomplete comparison of the two eras. I totally agree that if this generation of players played as much straight pool as the old masters, they might well run at least as many balls on the ten footers the old masters did. Nonetheless, to suggest that this generation of top players aren't comfortable on the ten footers is in error. Every year at the Derby City Bigfoot ten ball, it's easy to see that the top guys of today adjust very easily to playing on the ten footer.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#57)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
09-11-2018, 07:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth C. View Post
While I agree that changes in equipment -- especially faster cloth, which results in more balls being opened up with less force -- are an advantage for today's players, I'm not sure I see how the ten foot table example supports the argument that the old timers were better. They got to play on ten foot tables all the time! If the participants at the Derby Challenge in 2013(?) had played on ten footers their whole lives, they would have run more balls. As it was, they were playing in totally unfamiliar space.
I had the same thought. However, I thought the pockets on the old 10' tables were actually pretty small. Someone must have specs on those old tables somewhere.


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#58)
Seth C.
AzB Silver Member
Seth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 173
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2014
   
09-11-2018, 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Nice post.

I would agree with this and I can extend this line of reasoning to say that if this era were a continuation of the straight pool era, and straight pool was the game the top guys played most of the time, the players today would be better than the old masters, and the top fifty of this era would be substantially better, as a group, than the top fifty of any era. That may or may not mean that Hohmann, the obvious best of this era, would have been better than the best of the early 14.1 masters (Willie Mosconi, Ralph Greenleaf, Irving Crane) or the best of the later 14.1 masters (Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner) but he certainly might have been.

My comments were largely motivated by Ratta's incomplete comparison of the two eras. I totally agree that if this generation of players played as much straight pool as the old masters, they might well run at least as many balls on the ten footers the old masters did. Nonetheless, to suggest that this generation of top players aren't comfortable on the ten footers is in error. Every year at the Derby City Bigfoot ten ball, it's easy to see that the top guys of today adjust very easily to playing on the ten footer.
Taking your last point first, I'm not in a good position to debate the issue of how quickly top players can adjust to a ten foot table, as I haven't watched them try (other than by watching some videos of the high run attempts from 2013(?)). It just strikes me that in straight pool, the ingrained familiarity with speed of break shots, angles coming off the stack, etc., etc. would likely cause players to come up short or, alternatively, overcompensate and go long.

As for the rest of your post, I will add to the agreement by saying that if the old masters had the benefit of today's equipment, they might prove out to be the best of the crops. To me, unlike with so many sports where size, strength, speed and fitness are big factors, pool requires none of these. Well, at some level one might say that fitness matters because fatigue harms performance, and in tournaments or matches that are very long, fatigue can set in. But eye/hand coordination, feel, touch, vision and imagination are what it is all about -- coupled with endless appetite for practice and a constitution that is founded on discipline and determination. I'm not sure that that package is any more likely to exist in us today than it was in players who played 25, 50 or 75 years ago.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#59)
Bob Jewett
Northern California

Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 14,536
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
09-11-2018, 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I had the same thought. However, I thought the pockets on the old 10' tables were actually pretty small. ...
According to one report, the pockets were enlarged to stop the slow play of "The Inexorable Snail". Old-timers may know who I am talking about.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#60)
Seth C.
AzB Silver Member
Seth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 173
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2014
   
09-11-2018, 09:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
According to one report, the pockets were enlarged to stop the slow play of "The Inexorable Snail". Old-timers may know who I am talking about.
At 61 I don't know if I qualify as an "old-timer," but in any event I didn't get the reference to "The Inexorable Snail." So I looked it up. Seems that the same individual also caused himself to be known as "The Sloth." Here's a short bio: http://gremsdoolittlelibrary.blogspo...erski.html?m=1
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 4 of 4 « First 234

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.