Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > 14.1 Pool
Reload this Page Advice on break shots
Reply
Page 2 of 4 12 34
 
Share Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 5 votes, 5.00 average.
Old
  (#16)
Seth C.
AzB Silver Member
Seth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 173
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2014
   
01-29-2015, 11:35 AM

Thank you. That is a very helpful reply, and I do not consider it to include any copping out.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#17)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
01-29-2015, 08:39 PM

[QUOTE=Seth C.;5063309]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
I too would very much appreciate hearing opinions (and bases for those opinions) about where to try to have the cue ball strike a ball or balls in the stack (the middle balls, not the top ball or the bottom ball). Many thanks in advance.
Like Blackjack said, "it depends." I think it depends most on who you ask that question of.

If you ask Jim Rempe he'll say follow when you have a sharp angle, draw with a shallow one. Hit it only hard enough that the cue ball would go 3 rails if the pack weren't there. Rempe does like going into the top two balls.

If you ask Mike Sigel he'll say follow when you have a sharp angle, draw with a shallow one. Hit 'em hard enough to open them up but don't try to play position on the break shot. Just hit the thing and open them up. Sigel is pissed if his cue ball is parallel to his break ball, and is happy if the cue ball is one ball width closer to the side rail.

If you ask Pat Fleming he'll say the same as above, but just smash 'em open.

If you ask Tony Robles he'll show you how to get the cue ball to center table with inside draw while the opposite side top ball will pop out and go toward the side pocket so you can often get a shot on it with the cue ball rolling in that direction. In other words, Tony seems interested in playing position on the break shot.

One HOF player likes breaks from the back of the rack, and another avoids them because it sends too many balls up table and makes you go chase them

Some (I think George Fels among them) preferred to chip away at the corner balls, and steer away from the large mass of the 2 center balls.

Joe Tucker has a good book on break shots for various games. He talks about hitting the top, side, or bottom of each ball. If you know where you are going to contact the ball, you can even hit follow on a shallow angle if it suits you (my statement, not Tucker's).

Of course then there is the famous Mosconi break shot at a sharp angle. Done correctly, the balls scatter all over the lower half of the table, and the cue ball stays in the middle. "Doing it correctly" I think requires that you are Willie Mosconi. Why do virtually no professionals shoot this shot? Mystery to me. They all seem to prefer shallow breaks that they have to force. Sigel says it is because they don't know any better. I guess it's as good a reason as any other I've heard.

Bottom line is I have yet to find any real secret that guarantees you a good break with a shot afterwords. If such a thing exists, I'd love to hear it, too. I think, for me, on a particular table, you can kind of just tell when you're hitting them too hard (balls end up clumped in funny places) or not hard enough.


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
Seth C.
AzB Silver Member
Seth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond reputeSeth C. has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 173
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2014
   
01-29-2015, 10:52 PM

Awesome. Thank you.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
Poolmanis
AzB Silver Member
Poolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolmanis's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oulu, Finland
   
02-15-2015, 01:43 PM

I've actually got inspired by this thread and practiced a lot of straight pool lately. Emphasis have been thinking outside of box and training all kinda break shots.. I've probably learned a lot more than many years due a lot of experimenting..
I could do do some kind instructional video if peoples are interested..


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
02-15-2015, 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by king cut View Post
hi runs 95, 81, 81, 79 and 50+ many times, but most runs end with first shot after making
the break shot and coming up stitched. I tried easier, harder, higher and lower on the rack, read books and watcher you tube, but can't seam to resolve this problem.
Any advice Please!@
I had another thought. Have you ever tried using inside follow? This will bring you around the corner pocket and out to the middle of the table if you don't hit it too hard. Some think this maximizes your chances of getting a starting ball. Might be worth trying if you haven't yet.


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#21)
Poolmanis
AzB Silver Member
Poolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolmanis's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oulu, Finland
   
02-15-2015, 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I had another thought. Have you ever tried using inside follow? This will bring you around the corner pocket and out to the middle of the table if you don't hit it too hard. Some think this maximizes your chances of getting a starting ball. Might be worth trying if you haven't yet.
Good tip. I learned this way breaking also when I was experimenting break shots lately. If using rack side English you many times get 1 pocket opening safety results.. All balls are blocking others and cue ball is near side rail.
You just need to know when it's safe to use inside English.


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#22)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
02-16-2015, 08:32 AM

On another subject, I notice from your video that your elbow is in perfect alignment with the shot when you shoot harder and drop the elbow down. My elbow tends to drop inward toward my body and it is a little hard for me to figure out a solution to that. Have you always just done this naturally or did you have a method for assuring that your elbow stayed in line with the shot?

I look forward to watching the rest of your run.


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#23)
Poolmanis
AzB Silver Member
Poolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolmanis's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oulu, Finland
   
02-21-2015, 03:56 PM

Dan White:
Found your question from here..

lot of practice of that elbow thing years ago(and stroke). Nowadays i donīt practice stroke at all.
Or maybe once in 2 weeks(5-10 minutes) i shoot long draw shots and practicing also little elbow drop.
Then you get so much speed and spin if you drop elbow slightly just before contact to cue ball. It takes away jerky shots.
Canīt tell any recipe for that thought..


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#24)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
02-22-2015, 06:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolmanis View Post
Dan White:
Found your question from here..

lot of practice of that elbow thing years ago(and stroke). Nowadays i donīt practice stroke at all.
Or maybe once in 2 weeks(5-10 minutes) i shoot long draw shots and practicing also little elbow drop.
Then you get so much speed and spin if you drop elbow slightly just before contact to cue ball. It takes away jerky shots.
Canīt tell any recipe for that thought..
My elbow was always close, but not perfect, on most shots. It turned out that a simple solution (well, this is pool, nothing is simple) was to turn the back foot perpendicular to the shot. That readjusted the elbow. I still have an issue with dropping and turning it in on harder shots. I'm not sure if it causes any problems, but I prefer not to drop the elbow.

Thanks!


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#25)
wigglybridge
14.1 straight pool!
wigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond reputewigglybridge has a reputation beyond repute
 
wigglybridge's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 574
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Mass, USA
   
02-22-2015, 10:07 AM

interesting, Dan. one of the things i discovered from video last fall that led to my rapid runup in skill was that my elbow was pulling sharply in on power shots.

but my solution was opposite yours: i found that if i used the stance recommended in Play Great Pool, it made the situation worse. well, in fact, it Created it; if i went to a modern snooker stance, i have none of that. zero.

it's the one part of PGP that i think is either different for different people, or perhaps flat-out wrong: Mark even says "well, snooker players are the best, but..." and then diverges -- Radically -- from their technique with no real justification.

but if it works for you, then maybe the "to each his own" applies here.


cues: OB-122 w/ OB Classic shaft & Lucasi Hybrid LHSP

www.bobmills.org

Last edited by wigglybridge; 02-22-2015 at 10:57 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#26)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
02-22-2015, 03:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wigglybridge View Post
but if it works for you, then maybe the "to each his own" applies here.
I guess it is usually that way in sports. However, I always felt that billiards in America, in particular, lacked any real standardization for what should be done to play at a high level. I think it is still that way. Imagine if you went to two different golf pros and one of them told you to keep your left arm straight, and the other says it isn't that important to keep your left arm straight. I think we have a little too much of that in billiards.

Rempe taught me the stance I have now, with some tweaking (for the better) by PGP.

I think Mark Wilson is right when he says what feels wrong at first might actually be correct. You need time for your body to adjust to it. So often you see advise to "do what is comfortable."


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#27)
Poolmanis
AzB Silver Member
Poolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond reputePoolmanis has a reputation beyond repute
 
Poolmanis's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oulu, Finland
   
02-22-2015, 04:39 PM

I practiced stroke, alignment, stance, etc.. A LOT when I was younger.
Then I got rheumatism to my back and that finally made me end my research of "holy grail of stroke"
Now I go and shoot whatever stance my back let me. More and more I noticed that stroke and alignment goes right even not think about it if you watch "balls right way".
Can't really tell it any better. Without pool table.

Try finding out universal errors - those that everybody does. From bangers to pro players. Think why them are happening and figure way to overcome those errors.
That is way to get new level to aiming. Finding and using all help what your brains and eyes can get.
Same rules apply to stroke. Many peoples get stuck on plateau because someone say to they make it wrong way. Like "you have to keep elbow still on power shots also"
Don't care whatever "instructions" you get from "experts" find what really works for you..

Best way learn to shoot long draw with accuracy is set up one and shoot it A LOT.
Make necessary adjustments to your stance and stroke so you can shoot it without too much muscle. No matter how good you are this practice need to done perfect performance to even get 80% success ratio. Early ratio is probably 10-25% of time good shot. It is way too low for normal drills but now practice is perfection.

Ps. I was little better player when I was younger because I was near 5 years totally off from pool due my back. Had to learn all again and I never got as good stroke what I had.


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#28)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
02-22-2015, 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolmanis View Post
Best way learn to shoot long draw with accuracy is set up one and shoot it A LOT.
Make necessary adjustments to your stance and stroke so you can shoot it without too much muscle. No matter how good you are this practice need to done perfect performance to even get 80% success ratio. Early ratio is probably 10-25% of time good shot. It is way too low for normal drills but now practice is perfection.
I agree with much of what you are saying, but of course you can learn a lot from people who came before you and understand the journey to become a better player. So, of course you have to hit A LOT of those draw shots, but you also would be wise to learn from others.

If I've learned one important thing in recent years, it is how to stroke the cue with the minimum number of muscles being involved.


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#29)
Str8PoolMan
AzB Silver Member
Str8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond reputeStr8PoolMan has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 589
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Plano, Tx
   
02-28-2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I guess it is usually that way in sports. However, I always felt that billiards in America, in particular, lacked any real standardization for what should be done to play at a high level. I think it is still that way. Imagine if you went to two different golf pros and one of them told you to keep your left arm straight, and the other says it isn't that important to keep your left arm straight. I think we have a little too much of that in billiards.

Rempe taught me the stance I have now, with some tweaking (for the better) by PGP.

I think Mark Wilson is right when he says what feels wrong at first might actually be correct. You need time for your body to adjust to it. So often you see advise to "do what is comfortable."
Trust me, there's a whole lot of this in golf as well.


"Masquerading as a man with a reason"

- Max
Visionary Philosopher
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#30)
Dan White
AzB Silver Member
Dan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond reputeDan White has a reputation beyond repute
 
Dan White's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
03-01-2015, 08:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8PoolMan View Post
Trust me, there's a whole lot of this in golf as well.
In pool, kids pick up a cue and can play incorrectly for a lifetime without any instruction whatsoever, other than "aim and shoot." In golf, you can't even make contact with the ball without some relatively detailed instruction. It's just too complicated a motion.

That's all I'm sayin'.


Dan White
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 4 12 34

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.