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Ralf Eckert
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Ralf Eckert - 03-01-2015, 02:46 PM

........................

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03-02-2015, 12:57 PM

So ... my next question is whether anyone has firm thoughts on how to avoid drawing back to the head rail and leaving oneself with a length of table shot after making the break ball. For those who are not Thorsten Hohman -- well, at least for me -- going to the head rail means ending up pretty close to it -- too close to it -- whether reaching it and rebounding, or not quite reaching it. I often try to avoid this by hitting a stun shot with just a little draw, but that doesn't always produce a friendly next shot. I guess my question could be posed two ways: (1) what setup is likely to cause the cue all to come down to the head rail, and (2) what setup allows one to play a shot with at least a moderate amount of draw without risking going to the head rail. I presume it largely has to do with whether the cue ball is hitting the top, middle or bottom of a ball in the stack, but I also assume that speed has something to do with it.
  
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03-02-2015, 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTL View Post
Ralf Eckert has many good YouTube videos on various topics both in German and English. He loves 14.1.

There is one video, unfortunately in German, on the 14.1 break. I've watched it trying to follow along but can't understand 75% of what he's saying...........I'm sure its packed full of good info.

Maybe someone could contact him and request an English version. Anyway, here's the link below.

DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJfD0sRBIbk
Thanks for the link. I think some important points were understandable even if it had no audio.
  
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03-02-2015, 01:47 PM

........................

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03-04-2015, 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTL View Post
Ralf Eckert has many good YouTube videos on various topics both in German and English. He loves 14.1.

There is one video, unfortunately in German, on the 14.1 break. I've watched it trying to follow along but can't understand 75% of what he's saying...........I'm sure its packed full of good info.

Maybe someone could contact him and request an English version. Anyway, here's the link below.

DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJfD0sRBIbk
LoL.
These things what Ralf Eckert teaches here is same stuff what i experienced just couple weeks ago.
That video is really good info!

Something from my experience and from video too:
You need to get steep angle so you can get accurate hit to exact ball and what part of ball it hits(you can also use this for additional info for your brains for how to aim break ball also. If you hit right part of stack you will make ball also) decides what spin you use. Sometimes there is 2 or even 3 different spin and speed options what will work and are more like personal preference.
Shallow angle break shots of course are okay too but big guys use steeper angles.

I donīt speak German either but still really good video!
His hand gestures get the work done.


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03-04-2015, 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolmanis View Post
LoL.
These things what Ralf Eckert teaches here is same stuff what i experienced just couple weeks ago.
That video is really good info!

Something from my experience and from video too:
You need to get steep angle so you can get accurate hit to exact ball and what part of ball it hits(you can also use this for additional info for your brains for how to aim break ball also. If you hit right part of stack you will make ball also) decides what spin you use. Sometimes there is 2 or even 3 different spin and speed options what will work and are more like personal preference.
Shallow angle break shots of course are okay too but big guys use steeper angles.

I donīt speak German either but still really good video!
His hand gestures get the work done.
Poolmanis - my brains love the way you speak english.


Dan White
  
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03-05-2015, 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTL View Post
Ralf Eckert has many good YouTube videos on various topics both in German and English. He loves 14.1.

There is one video, unfortunately in German, on the 14.1 break. I've watched it trying to follow along but can't understand 75% of what he's saying...........I'm sure its packed full of good info.

Maybe someone could contact him and request an English version. Anyway, here's the link below.

DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJfD0sRBIbk
I watched this video last night, Ralph and Pool Stage did an amazing job with it.

though i didnt understand one bit of german, i can see that there was a wealth of info contained here.

I am searching for a way that maybe i could ad subtitles to the video. i tried the setting on youtube as far a translated subtitles and that didnt work.

It would be great if Ralph and Pool Stage did an english version !!

-Steve


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03-05-2015, 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
I watched this video last night, Ralph and Pool Stage did an amazing job with it.

though i didnt understand one bit of german, i can see that there was a wealth of info contained here.

I am searching for a way that maybe i could ad subtitles to the video. i tried the setting on youtube as far a translated subtitles and that didnt work.

It would be great if Ralph and Pool Stage did an english version !!

-Steve
You could always just ask Ralph on FB ... or perhaps someone should wake up Ingo ... he could translate.


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03-05-2015, 09:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
You could always just ask Ralph on FB ... or perhaps someone should wake up Ingo ... he could translate.

BJ: I tagged him in a link of it on Illinois Straight Pool Club on Facebook yesterday, but no response.

So I sent him a message today asking if he had anything in English covering the subject.

I know he is busy in Singapore training the team, but maybe we will get lucky and he will respond.

Here's his response.

"Hi Dennis,
It's complicated. We were running out of time back then to do it another time in English...
I wrote a little bit about it in my first book (1995).
I'm not sure, but I guess I did a similar one for www.checkbilliard.com .
But then it's in the section for gold members (customers) of our training-app!

I might talk to the ceo if he might release this particular one for promotional reasons on YouTube...
Best, Ralph."

and

" you should find it in "Modern Pool". It's about when the cue ball strikes the rack it hits it mostly between two balls! And if it hits the lower one first the CB goes towards the kitchen (except playing high), if it hits the upper one first it goes principally downward between the first diamond and the foot corner. And that it is sometimes hard to predict which ball will be strike first. Some details in it but basically I tell that there are only 3 basic directions possible and you should learn to predict them right and strike the cue ball accordingly.
That's the short version for you...
Greetings from Singapore..."

Last edited by dmgwalsh; 03-05-2015 at 09:50 AM.
  
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03-05-2015, 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
You could always just ask Ralph on FB ... or perhaps someone should wake up Ingo ... he could translate.
I sent Ralph a PM on Facebook as well !!!

yes maybe Mr. Ingo can do a voice over that would be fantastic


CALLING MR. INGO, COME IN MR. INGO !!!

-Steve


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03-05-2015, 01:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgwalsh View Post
BJ: I tagged him in a link of it on Illinois Straight Pool Club on Facebook yesterday, but no response.

So I sent him a message today asking if he had anything in English covering the subject.

I know he is busy in Singapore training the team, but maybe we will get lucky and he will respond.

Here's his response.

"Hi Dennis,
It's complicated. We were running out of time back then to do it another time in English...
I wrote a little bit about it in my first book (1995).
I'm not sure, but I guess I did a similar one for www.checkbilliard.com .
But then it's in the section for gold members (customers) of our training-app!

I might talk to the ceo if he might release this particular one for promotional reasons on YouTube...
Best, Ralph."

and

" you should find it in "Modern Pool". It's about when the cue ball strikes the rack it hits it mostly between two balls! And if it hits the lower one first the CB goes towards the kitchen (except playing high), if it hits the upper one first it goes principally downward between the first diamond and the foot corner. And that it is sometimes hard to predict which ball will be strike first. Some details in it but basically I tell that there are only 3 basic directions possible and you should learn to predict them right and strike the cue ball accordingly.
That's the short version for you...
Greetings from Singapore..."
The question (in my mind) then being: how should one strike the cue ball "accordingly"? There seems to be general consensus that if one has a steep enough angle, follow is the shot, irrespective of whether the CB will strike the top, middle or bottom of a stack ball, or right in between two stack balls. But let's say the CB will strike the stack other than at a corner, and (a) the line between the CB and break ball is near or exactly parallel to the long rail, or (b) the angle is somewhat shallower, then, in each of those two cases (with the primary goals of not scratching and not leaving the CB down on or near the head rail), what strike should be put on the CB, for each of the scenarios (of the CB hitting high on a stack ball, directly on a stack ball, low on a stack ball, or right in between stack balls)? (Of course, the strike that is put on the CB can affect where it hits a stack ball or balls -- I get that part).
  
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03-05-2015, 01:50 PM

this idea of predicting where the cue ball will go based on what ball you're hitting has me... well, not confused, maybe more not believing it has much merit.

i see many people, especially the Europeans, studying the rack like this intently for a fair amount of time, and then their results are indistinguishable from chance; Nick van den Berg at the DCC is a recent prime example. they study, study, study... and then the cue ball ends up on the top rail anyway.

John Schmidt has said in at least one video that so much depends on the exact contact with the object ball and on the speed and spin you have on the cue ball that it's meaningless, because you can't really predict exactly where you're hitting on the pack. and Thorsten, with rare exception, seems to just pound the living snot out of the ball with tons of draw no matter where it is and take what comes. Mika gets good results mostly using just a very soft break and draw.

i resisted Steve Matthieu's assertion that many, many more break shots can be hit with top or top + outside for a long time, but now that i'm making break shots of all angles more reliably, i'm finding he was right. i still don't know as it's the best way to get the cue ball free in all cases, but i haven't scratched on a break shot in quite a while now using that approach almost exclusively, even when i have the cue ball closer to center table than the object ball.

Danny Harriman says in one of his videos that inside english is a powerful tool for effective breaks, and it all makes sense when he does it, but when i try to do it, i have little cue ball control at best, or more often, just scratch. i'd really like this one to work, because i'm one of the few players i know that actually Likes using inside.

i'm sure there are correct answers here, because before the smash-and-grab approach came to the fore, the oldtimers got reliable results. maybe because they always played for very steep angles?

this whole thing is not very clear. we really need something like Capelle's end-pattern videos, but instead showing just a hundred breaks of different sorts.


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03-05-2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wigglybridge View Post
this idea of predicting where the cue ball will go based on what ball you're hitting has me... well, not confused, maybe more not believing it has much merit.

i see many people, especially the Europeans, studying the rack like this intently for a fair amount of time, and then their results are indistinguishable from chance; Nick van den Berg at the DCC is a recent prime example. they study, study, study... and then the cue ball ends up on the top rail anyway.

John Schmidt has said in at least one video that so much depends on the exact contact with the object ball and on the speed and spin you have on the cue ball that it's meaningless, because you can't really predict exactly where you're hitting on the pack. and Thorsten, with rare exception, seems to just pound the living snot out of the ball with tons of draw no matter where it is and take what comes. Mika gets good results mostly using just a very soft break and draw.

i resisted Steve Matthieu's assertion that many, many more break shots can be hit with top or top + outside for a long time, but now that i'm making break shots of all angles more reliably, i'm finding he was right. i still don't know as it's the best way to get the cue ball free in all cases, but i haven't scratched on a break shot in quite a while now using that approach almost exclusively, even when i have the cue ball closer to center table than the object ball.

Danny Harriman says in one of his videos that inside english is a powerful tool for effective breaks, and it all makes sense when he does it, but when i try to do it, i have little cue ball control at best, or more often, just scratch. i'd really like this one to work, because i'm one of the few players i know that actually Likes using inside.

i'm sure there are correct answers here, because before the smash-and-grab approach came to the fore, the oldtimers got reliable results. maybe because they always played for very steep angles?

this whole thing is not very clear. we really need something like Capelle's end-pattern videos, but instead showing just a hundred breaks of different sorts.
What you have written makes a lot of sense to me. Not knowing whether anyone had performed extensive studying of what happens when you hit different shots, contacting different places on mid-stack balls, from different (but not steep-angled) places above the stack (and ignoring the other variable of imperfect or inconsistent racking), I for one figured I'd persist in asking. I'm not at a level where I'm in a position to give advice, and in my practice at running balls I haven't hit all types of break shots (English-wise -- for example, I almost never put English on a break shot that I hit with draw), but it seems to me that unless you have Thorsten-like power (without loss of precision) and can draw the ball to the head rail and then back to middle table, the safe approach on break shots that don't present a steep or steepish angle is to hit them high inside when the break ball is low (so as to bring the CB back to center table), and to hit them with stun draw when the break ball is middle stack (looking for a side pocket, cross table shot, or a shot down the rail into the corner pocket at the head end of the table on the side from which you hit the break shot, or a shot into one of the foot end corner pockets. Generally, it seems better to hit these balls smoothly, as Fels recommended in his "Advanced Pool," rather than hard. That's what I'm coming to think, smartly or not. I just hate getting left (putting myself) down on or near the head rail.
  
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03-05-2015, 07:53 PM

You don't need Thorsten power to get cue ball to end rail and back. It comes naturally with stun like draw and hard speed if you hit top side ball quite thin. Any of middle 3 balls will do. Thorsten just know when accurately when that is "on". It of course need accurate pocketing also so you hit target on rack too accurately..

You can set it easily if put steep angle (to topside of ball) near rack to break ball and shoot middle ball with hard speed.. You need to know tangent line 90 degree rule to be able setup it correctly.


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03-09-2015, 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth C. View Post
So ... my next question is whether anyone has firm thoughts on how to avoid drawing back to the head rail and leaving oneself with a length of table shot after making the break ball. For those who are not Thorsten Hohman -- well, at least for me -- going to the head rail means ending up pretty close to it -- too close to it -- whether reaching it and rebounding, or not quite reaching it. I often try to avoid this by hitting a stun shot with just a little draw, but that doesn't always produce a friendly next shot. I guess my question could be posed two ways: (1) what setup is likely to cause the cue all to come down to the head rail, and (2) what setup allows one to play a shot with at least a moderate amount of draw without risking going to the head rail. I presume it largely has to do with whether the cue ball is hitting the top, middle or bottom of a ball in the stack, but I also assume that speed has something to do with it.
It's a good question, I have a fairly easy answer. Pay close attention to what part of the object ball your cue ball will contact after the break shot. This will be easier to visualize when the break ball is close to the rack (90 degree angle). If your cue ball will contact the top part of the object ball ( after a successful break shot ) then there is a good chance that with even center ball whitey' will reside up table after the break shot. If there is more than a foot from the break ball and the rack - top spin should be ok. The only exception to the rule is if there is not much angle on your break shot, then the cue ball will draw up table - unless you really know what your doing. Better to have plenty of angle on the break shot and look closely at what object ball the cue ball will hit.

Last edited by Danny Harriman; 03-09-2015 at 02:41 PM.
  
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