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What do you do here ? Need a ruling mr Jewitt please !
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stevekur1
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What do you do here ? Need a ruling mr Jewitt please ! - 09-22-2018, 04:10 AM

A player scratches after pocketting a ball, it is in the middle of the rack. When going to place the object ball on the spot with other balls in that area he drops the ball on the table disturbing multiple balls.

This scenario can come up in many different angels, for instance a player can do this intentionally to unwire a dead ball his opponent may now have, etc.

How does this “accident” get ruled, it actually happened in one of my league matches where we don’t have a referee?

Thanks
The Commish


PETE TONKIN CUSTOM CUES

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Pushout
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09-22-2018, 08:15 AM

"unwire a dead ball" is disturbing, for sure. I hope Bob can give us a ruling on this.


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09-22-2018, 10:54 AM

until bob answers
i hope this is of some help
from the wpa rules
6.6 Touched Ball
It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of any object ball except by the normal ball-toball
contacts during shots.
It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of the cue ball except
when it is in hand or by the normal tip-to-ball forward stroke contact of a shot. The shooter is
responsible for the equipment he controls at the table, such as chalk, bridges, clothing, his
hair, parts of his body, and the cue ball when it is in hand, that may be involved in such fouls.

If such a foul is accidental, it is a standard foul, but if it is intentional, it is 6.17
Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
if multiple balls are moved it could be loss of game (i think ...i couldnt find the rule )
bolded parts above by me
  
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09-22-2018, 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
until bob answers
i hope this is of some help
from the wpa rules
6.6 Touched Ball
It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of any object ball except by the normal ball-toball
contacts during shots.
It is a foul to touch, move or change the path of the cue ball except
when it is in hand or by the normal tip-to-ball forward stroke contact of a shot. The shooter is
responsible for the equipment he controls at the table, such as chalk, bridges, clothing, his
hair, parts of his body, and the cue ball when it is in hand, that may be involved in such fouls.

If such a foul is accidental, it is a standard foul, but if it is intentional, it is 6.17
Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
if multiple balls are moved it could be loss of game (i think ...i couldnt find the rule )
bolded parts above by me

thanks for that.... But in league play we do not play foul on all ball. just cueball fouls.


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Bob Jewett
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09-24-2018, 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
A player scratches after pocketting a ball, it is in the middle of the rack. When going to place the object ball on the spot with other balls in that area he drops the ball on the table disturbing multiple balls.

This scenario can come up in many different angels, for instance a player can do this intentionally to unwire a dead ball his opponent may now have, etc.

How does this “accident” get ruled, it actually happened in one of my league matches where we don’t have a referee?

Thanks
The Commish
I think the general principle is that a player when acting as a referee cannot incur a foul. Often when spotting a ball another ball will be touched especially if the spotted ball needs to be frozen.

A player who wants to cheat in league gets to pull the "rearrange the dead ones" move one time. After that a third party gets called over to spot balls for him when there is a chance of a ball drop.

The balls should go back to where they were with the agreement of both players. If they can't agree then I guess there is a problem.


Bob Jewett
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09-24-2018, 06:52 PM

Just another example of how league play should be labeled as "proceed at your own risk". Too many stories along this narrative.
  
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09-25-2018, 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think the general principle is that a player when acting as a referee cannot incur a foul. Often when spotting a ball another ball will be touched especially if the spotted ball needs to be frozen.

A player who wants to cheat in league gets to pull the "rearrange the dead ones" move one time. After that a third party gets called over to spot balls for him when there is a chance of a ball drop.

The balls should go back to where they were with the agreement of both players. If they can't agree then I guess there is a problem.
thank you sir, no point penalty ?


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09-25-2018, 09:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
thank you sir, no point penalty ?
He was the ref so a one-point penalty is not appropriate. However, if the act was intentional, loss of match is the right penalty.


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09-25-2018, 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
He was the ref so a one-point penalty is not appropriate. However, if the act was intentional, loss of match is the right penalty.
Thanks Bob, now the tough part is to prove that if it were intentional or un-intentional...lol


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