BK3 white diamond tip

M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm trying to install a white diamond tip and carbon fiber pad on a BK3 shaft. The tips or pads keep coming off. I've tried loctite gel control, loctite plastic epoxy and DP420 epoxy. Now I'm trying loctite professional. Next maybe Loctite Ultra Gel Control. All CA and Epoxy are brand new. The carbon fiber pads are from OB Cues..

The end of the BK3 ferrule is hollow. It seemed to be filled in with a leather tip when I received it. I've filled it with a piece of phenolic. Is this supposed to be empty or what is it supposed to be filled with?

I'm flatting the tip with 100 grit sandpaper and the ferrule with a Willards tip machine. After that I clean with alcohol and let it dry before gluing. Then I let it cure for 3 days before cutting with the lathe.

The epoxy doesn't seem to stick to the white diamond or the phenolic. Any recommendations on how to get epoxy to stick to the tip, pad and ferrule?

At this point I'm about to give up. I might have to cut a piece of phenolic rod and make a tip that goes into the hollow area. But then I wouldn't be able to use a carbon fiber pad. Or just settle with a leather tip. I'm aware that the warranty isn't covered anymore.

Any recommendations?



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Last edited:
Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
The 'ferrule' and pad MUST be totally flat to each other, as in Not even the slightest rocking motion. I use a magnifying lens with light to check. Same goes for the pad to the tip joint. Just sanding doesn't work, they should be faced flat. The slightest rocking motion will cause the tip or pad to dislodge under the stress of trimming and or breaking, no matter the glue used. With that said, the White diamond tip needs to be sanded flat using a piece of sand paper (220 grit) on top of a solid, flat surface like a bench saw top, or similar. No tip comes completely flat from the factory.
Hope this helps,
Dave
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
You need more gluing surface.
I'd use a short maple plug and plug up that hole to have full face.
It's a break cue. It doesn't need to be ultra low mass at the end.
 
M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fishermanOICUR1 said:
I do not understand using the Williard for facing when you mentioned you have a lathe.
Click to expand...
Ideally I'm trying to do something like this.

https://vimeo.com/156441858

I have a mid america taig lathe with 1/4" toolpost. I'm not real great at facing and indexing. I think my cutting bits are too dull. So I was getting a flatter surface with the Willards. Also it might be heating the adhesive up too much when I'm trimming the sides.

What sort of bit do you recommend for facing and trimming?

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M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
whammo57 said:
get a different shaft

Kim
Click to expand...
Yeah this shaft isn't ideal. I'm not sure if there is supposed to be something under the carbon fiber pad. There is an empty space in the middle about half the size of a tip. Thats surrounded by plastic or carbon fiber and then the ferrule. I've filled the gap with phenolic.

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M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
captainjko said:
Try Rapid Fuse
Click to expand...
I might try that. From other threads I have read, others have good success with Loctite Professional, Loctite Ultra Gel, Tough tip, and different epoxies such as DP420.

I'm guessing the main problem is in my process. Most likely I'm not facing the ferrule completely flat or I'm heating the tip up too much when I cut the sides. Or the multiple ferrule materials are compressing different amounts.

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WilleeCue

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
Try 30 min epoxy if all the super type glues fail.
It will help fill in a bit of the hollow end.
Its slow to set but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

I machine a small shoulder on the White Diamond tip and a corresponding hole in the ferrule to help counteract the lateral forces of a Break or Jump shot.
Making the raised part of that shoulder fit snugly into the hole of the shaft would help a lot.

Hard to explain ... easy to see.
 

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captainjko

captainjko

Kirk
Silver Member
A few years ago I had a cue that would not hold a white diamond tip no matter what glue or epoxy I used. I finally installed it then drilled an 1/8" hole 3/4" deep through the tip and into the shaft. Glued in an 1/8" phenolic rod and sanded smooth...(keeps the tip from any lateral movement) Tip is still on to this day.... You may have to do this if all else fails... But you may have to insert a plug in the end of the shaft first...
 
Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
You should NEVER have to drill a tip and install a piece of phenolic rod....if you do, then you are not doing the due diligence required to install a tip properly. The factory managed to do it right, so we can too!! It's a 2 stage project, Glue CF pad on (correctly) and then glue on the tip. All pieces need to be perfectly faced and flat, not even the slightest rocking motion when put against each other. Face the ferrule end accurately, (in a lathe), then Sand the cf pad on a Flat surface, check for any movement when placed on the ferrule (dry fit) if it is a go, glue it. wait 10 minutes then face the cf pad, sand the tip flat, check for movement, if none, glue up and wait 10 minutes then trim and shape. I do tell customers to wait 24 hrs before breaking racks as it allows for complete curing, but it can be used pretty much right away. No need to re-invent the wheel due to improper techniques, IMHO.
Dave
 
WilleeCue

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
I kinda agree with Dave in as much as drilling a hole thru the tip and filling it with a rod would change the material from White Diamond to whatever the rod was made of at the center of the tip ... the main contact point.

There are such things as a bad batch of glue also.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
3M has epoxy with extra high shear strength. You need to buy that dispenser gun too, but it's well worth it, great products.
 
T

thoffen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
You need more gluing surface.
I'd use a short maple plug and plug up that hole to have full face.
It's a break cue. It doesn't need to be ultra low mass at the end.
Click to expand...

I actually disagree with this. A break is hit with more speed, so any unintentional side will create a lot of deflection and greatly affect the outcome. Of course, a low deflection build resulting in less material for both structural integrity and gluing surfaces is potentially problematic. I think it's up to the customer. They need to understand the trade-offs and, if they choose a lower deflection option, understand the risk of failure.

I agree with the slow curing epoxy choice. Epoxy likes to stick to itself, so it's going to behave differently than a lot of other adhesives. You do still want them faced very well, but then sanded to a low grit to have small keys for the epoxy to bond to. The pieces need to be cleaned well with a solvent to get rid of any grease, etc.
 
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