BCA Eight Ball Rule Question

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Open table, player sinks his called ball but scratches, is the table still open?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Open table, player sinks his called ball but scratches, is the table still open?

Yes under normal rules (AKA not league modifications), you need to make a "legal" shot to nominate your group. A scratch is not a "legal" shot.
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks, guys, for the quick response. It's odd I couldn't resolve that with the BCA rule booklet, I will look again.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Thanks, guys, for the quick response. It's odd I couldn't resolve that with the BCA rule booklet, I will look again.
There's a couple of versions out there, but they both specify legally pocketing the OB to choose a group:

Dr. Dave's copy
11. CHOICE OF GROUP. The choice of stripes or solids is not determined on the break even if balls are made from only one or both groups. THE TABLE IS ALWAYS OPEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BREAK SHOT. The choice of group is determined only when a player legally pockets a called object ball after the break shot.

BCA-Pool.com
3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups
Before groups are determined, the table is said to be “open,” and before each shot, the shooter must call his intended ball. If the shooter legally pockets his called ball, the corresponding group becomes his, and his opponent is assigned the other group. If he fails to legally pocket his called ball, the table remains open and play passes to the other player. When the table is “open”, any object ball may be struck first except the eight ball.

pj
chgo
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks, guys, for the quick response. It's odd I couldn't resolve that with the BCA rule booklet, I will look again.

If you google to find the BCA rules online be aware that one of the highest ranked sites is NOT official BCA rules and has several rules that are incorrect. It was put up by a fan who apparently had bad information or made errors.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks, guys, for the quick response. It's odd I couldn't resolve that with the BCA rule booklet, I will look again.

I will assume you aren't looking for the BCA Rules at all.

If you're looking for the BCAPL rules, then that would be the CSI (Cue Sports International) Rules.

For CSI Rules, you'll need to combine a few rules to resolve this question:

https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html

2-6 Establishing Groups
1. Groups are established when the first object ball is legally pocketed on a shot after the
break

Illegally Pocketed Ball
An object ball is illegally pocketed when:
a. a foul is committed on the shot in which the ball was pocketed

-------------------------------------------------------------

If you are looking for BCA Rules, which at this point would be a bit strange, then you can either go the WPA rules website. Similarly, you'll need to go through a couple rules to resolve the question.

https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/#eight-ball

3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups

If the shooter legally pockets his called ball, the corresponding
group becomes his, and his opponent is assigned the other group. I

8.2 Shot

A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue
stick. A shot ends when all balls in play have stopped moving and spinning. A shot is said to
be legal if the shooter did not foul during the shot.
-----------------------------------

If you are hell bent on getting the BCA Rules and not the BCA Pool League Rules, and if you think that the WPA Rules (which the BCA follows as far as rules go) aren't to your liking, then if you got to the Billiard Congress of America site and check out the BCA rules for 8-ball ( https://bca-pool.com/page/54 ), you'll notice it links you the the 2007 WPA Rules. Just go to the WPA site and get the latest rules.

------------------------------------------

BCA is not BCA Pool League. That's for everyone else wanting to answer these question.


Freddie <~~~ hth
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
Whoa whoa whoa what is this, Cornerman.. Minutia Monday? Is that how the King, Elvis or the Doc., Martin would want you to be spending this day hitherto? No no no. The BCA pool league just be the BCA. Even with new ownerage and name and all, the name hasn’t changed. Us common folk know of the APA, and the BCA. The APA is the one with all the drunkards shouting “Mark it up” and the BCA is the other league where you play a preordained rack against another, call shot.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Whoa whoa whoa what is this, Cornerman.. Minutia Monday? Is that how the King, Elvis or the Doc., Martin would want you to be spending this day hitherto? No no no. The BCA pool league just be the BCA. Even with new ownerage and name and all, the name hasn’t changed. Us common folk know of the APA, and the BCA. The APA is the one with all the drunkards shouting “Mark it up” and the BCA is the other league where you play a preordained rack against another, call shot.

The BCA is the Billiard Congress of America, the North American representative in the WPA. It is mostly a trade association.

The BCAPL is part of CSI and has nothing to do with the BCA except perhaps being a member of the BCA in its trade association role. The "BCA" in BCA Pool League is meaningless.

They are very different. They have different rule sets. The BCA has the World Standardized Rules from the WPA. The BCAPL has their own (CSI) rules which are largely based on a version of the WSR but now include major differences.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
2-6 Establishing Groups
1. Groups are established when the first object ball is legally pocketed on a shot after the
break.

If you miss your called pocket and slop another ball in, is this now your group?
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
The BCA is the Billiard Congress of America, the North American representative in the WPA. It is mostly a trade association.

The BCAPL is part of CSI and has nothing to do with the BCA except perhaps being a member of the BCA in its trade association role. The "BCA" in BCA Pool League is meaningless.

They are very different. They have different rule sets. The BCA has the World Standardized Rules from the WPA. The BCAPL has their own (CSI) rules which are largely based on a version of the WSR but now include major differences.

Whoa whoa whoa what is this, Bob? Minutia Mon... damnit I can’t use it again. : ) I know I know. Maybe one day the name change will catch on and people will call it the BCAPL or just CSI league or something.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you miss your called pocket and slop another ball in, is this now your group?
BCAPL rules are call shot. You have to make a called shot to claim a group.

BCA rules are also call shot.

So, the answer is no.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Whoa whoa whoa what is this, Bob? Minutia Mon... damnit I can’t use it again. : ) I know I know. Maybe one day the name change will catch on and people will call it the BCAPL or just CSI league or something.

Try decaf.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
BCAPL rules are call shot. You have to make a called shot to claim a group.

BCA rules are also call shot.

So, the answer is no.

Good to know. It's how I have played. The wording above was a little unclear.

Thank you for the clarification.
 

eastcoast_chris

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had this come up just last week.

We/I needed a 17 for the round in league.

I break dry. Only shot is a solid onto a stripe combo. Guy shoots it, makes the stripe and follows through and scratch behind the made ball.

I take ball in hand and run the stripes down to the 8....then hang the 8 in the side.

He makes 1 ball and hooks himself.

I make the 8 and win 16-1.... losing the round 43-42 :(
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What if senioritis strikes and you can't remember whether you had stripes or solids? Table open?

Comes up frequently at the local senior center.
 

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What if senioritis strikes and you can't remember whether you had stripes or solids? Table open?

Comes up frequently at the local senior center.

Two poker chips, different colors. When you claim your group, you take a chip. On the chip, marked with a Sharpie, is "stripes" or "solids."
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Whoa whoa whoa what is this, Cornerman.. Minutia Monday? Is that how the King, Elvis or the Doc., Martin would want you to be spending this day hitherto? No no no. The BCA pool league just be the BCA. Even with new ownerage and name and all, the name hasn’t changed. Us common folk know of the APA, and the BCA. The APA is the one with all the drunkards shouting “Mark it up” and the BCA is the other league where you play a preordained rack against another, call shot.

There are enough differences in the rules that if we don’t push the differences between BCA vs BCAPL, we’ll continue to have issues with rules questions.just on this question, we had people citing BCA Rules which went to the 2007 WPA Rules. You don’t want that.

Also, I did commentary for CSI for three years at the BCAPl Nationals (now Worlds). They wanted us to make sure we said BCAPL OR BCA Pool League. I’ll continue with that.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had this come up just last week.

We/I needed a 17 for the round in league.

I break dry. Only shot is a solid onto a stripe combo. Guy shoots it, makes the stripe and follows through and scratch behind the made ball.

I take ball in hand and run the stripes down to the 8....then hang the 8 in the side.

He makes 1 ball and hooks himself.

I make the 8 and win 16-1.... losing the round 43-42 :(

This example is why I like the USAPL rule that if both players are on the hill, the one that actually wins the hill hill game is the winner, even if the other player got to his needed points first. I guess if you were not on the hill that wold still be a loss.
 
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