626 is it legit?

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
I am genuinely interested in some input here, does anyone question the legitimacy of Schmidt's mystery tape of 626 that helped get hin into the hall f fame and his new cue sponsr. If you believe he did it then that is cool with me, but if you have not seen an unedited tape providing proof then I am not interested in your vote. Please do not try to discredit this post if yer on john's fakebook page and want to try to be a good puppet - not interested in yer view either. So again I am only interested in non biased opinions here as I do smell an expired rodent in relation to the 626 mystery tape. Drive by fake news media is not a joke to me and should not be treated as such either.
 

RabbiHippie

"Look! A real hippie!"
Silver Member
https://cdn.ymaws.com/bca-pool.com/resource/resmgr/press_releases/schmidt_new_high_run_record_.pdf

The BCA reviewed the unedited tape before formally announcing that Schmidt broke the record. That gives credibility to the claim.

I’m sure the BCA has its faults, but it is the recognized body for the sport and is generally perceived as a reputable organization. The BCA gains very little from recognizing Schmidt’s run, but has a lot to lose (reputation-wise) if ever it was found that the evidence didn’t support their public statement. The last thing any bureaucratic organization wants is to issue a retraction.

I shoot fairly often at Billiard of Springfield, by the way. The locals are all proud of your accomplishments as a player. Have you considered making your own concerted effort at breaking Schmidt’s record? Many people think you’re one of the few who are capable of doing it. It would probably require the same full-time commitment that it did for Schmidt.

Seems like the sweetest resolution to this debate would be to snatch the record away from him. Just make sure that you don’t make the same mistake he did by failing to post the video on YouTube while it was still newsworthy. Trust me, money will come with more eyeballs.
 
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Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
https://cdn.ymaws.com/bca-pool.com/resource/resmgr/press_releases/schmidt_new_high_run_record_.pdf

The BCA reviewed the unedited tape before formally announcing that Schmidt broke the record. That gives credibility to the claim.

I’m sure the BCA has its faults, but it is the recognized body for the sport and is generally perceived as a reputable organization. The BCA gains very little from recognizing Schmidt’s run, but has a lot to lose (reputation-wise) if ever it was found that the evidence didn’t support their public statement. The last thing any bureaucratic organization wants is to issue a retraction.

/thread
:thumbup:
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
https://cdn.ymaws.com/bca-pool.com/resource/resmgr/press_releases/schmidt_new_high_run_record_.pdf

The BCA reviewed the unedited tape before formally announcing that Schmidt broke the record. That gives credibility to the claim.

I’m sure the BCA has its faults, but it is the recognized body for the sport and is generally perceived as a reputable organization. The BCA gains very little from recognizing Schmidt’s run, but has a lot to lose (reputation-wise) if ever it was found that the evidence didn’t support their public statement. The last thing any bureaucratic organization wants is to issue a retraction.

I shoot fairly often at Billiard of Springfield, by the way. The locals are all proud of your accomplishments as a player. Have you considered making your own concerted effort at breaking Schmidt’s record? Many people think you’re one of the few who are capable of doing it. It would probably require the same full-time commitment that it did for Schmidt.

Seems like the sweetest resolution to this debate would be to snatch the record away from him. Just make sure that you don’t make the same mistake he did by failing to post the video on YouTube while it was still newsworthy. Trust me, money will come with more eyeballs.
Weren't there actual, living humans that witnessed this?
Why is this such a hot-button issue for some people? Mosconi's record wasn't recorded yet everyone accepted it due to eye-witnesses. Shouldn't that be enough?? This whole "did he really do it?" drama is kinda lame imo.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No UNBIASED WITNESS(es). Run started at 10:00AM and ended at 2:07PM. Business was only open to public @ 1:00PM. No one, unbiased, could have seen more than one hour, seven minutes of the run. All affidavit signees were biased with six out of the eight signees being JS team members. STILL ONLY QUALIFIES AS A PRACTICE RUN, nothing to do with 14.1 Straight Pool/Continuous. TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
Pretty much same as Mosconi's run. Held in a local pool hall full of WM lovers. Please.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
The BCA reviewed the unedited tape before formally announcing that Schmidt broke the record. That gives credibility to the claim.

I’m sure the BCA has its faults, but it is the recognized body for the sport and is generally perceived as a reputable organization. The BCA gains very little from recognizing Schmidt’s run, but has a lot to lose (reputation-wise) if ever it was found that the evidence didn’t support their public statement. The last thing any bureaucratic organization wants is to issue a retraction.

This is how I feel, too. The BCA had no vested interest in recognizing this record. It's not as if the BCA has tried to use it to stir up interest in 14.1 or in anything else, for that matter. They claim to have witnessed the run from start to finish and have deemed it valid. That's good enough for me.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
hmm

I have been the last American standing at the Dragon 14.1 event (bronze medal), 1st place at the dcc straight pool challenge (both high run and tournament winner). I just wonder why I am unable to view the tape with my own eyes? I understand that Guinness Book of World Records does not acknowledge their claim as an actual record - is this because it has not been released for the main public to view?
I understand the 'semi public' can view it however? I am obviously not apart of the semi public or I would have seen it already, anyone who believes all they hear or read (without first seeing solid evidence) is a bit of a fool imho.

Kipchoge (Kenya) broke the 2 hr barrier in the marathon in a non traditional race format a couple months back, it was live streamed and OPEN for GENERAL PUBLIC to see on the tube. I do not see the same transparency in relation to schmidt and charlie's claim of this mystery 626 or the bca for that matter. Please note that I have competed against John many times in 14.1 and I acknowledge that he is an accomplished Straight Pool player who is capable of running 600 + on a 5" pocket table - I just want to know why they have not released the tape for the people to see. Also if there is not a visible line drawn around the triangle for us to see what balls are in or out of the rack - I would immediately discredit this run, if there is no line drawn around triangle - they will be using a large/thick triangle to rack with - as to help create more space for possible break shots (cheating). Till I see evidence - I will remain very skeptical. All of John's new sponsors / 14.1 hall of fame deal happened after the bca announced his new record - without releasing any footage to the general public. There seems to be some hidden pockets here - all I'm asking for is a little clarity on this mystery tape. Otherwise there just using his name to make a phony claim. My record against him is good in tournament competition - so I really have nothing to be jealous about ha ha. Besides I have no big sponsors and would probly never practice on 5" pockets anyhue.

Not really sure the difference between the semi public and general public - but it does sound kinda divisive, Anyone care to comment on why only the 'semi public' are allowed to see the private viewing of this tape? Just because of my list of accomplishments in the 14.1 discipline - does not give me anymore of a right to see proof, I am just like the rest of the general public - not allowed to see evidence after 9 months of this possible phony claim. Also if u believe everything u hear I am not interested in yer input either. I really feel that in order for john to get the hall of fame and new cue sponsor deal he had to come up with some new accomplishment - so they targeted Mosconi's record and then this hidden pocket mystery tape. The reason they will not release or try to market it in a traditional way - because the tape will not pass and has been altered. I am not the only one with this opinion either. his new cue sponsor will soon be trying to sell a cue that says mr. 626, the cue will probly be available to general public for sale but I would imagine they (the powers at b) will hide the tape for some time from the general public. I think semi public = john's facebook followers/ oblivious sheep.
 
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Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I have been the last American standing at the Dragon 14.1 event (bronze medal), 1st place at the dcc straight pool challenge (both high run and tournament winner). I just wonder why I am unable to view the tape with my own eyes? I understand that Guinness Book of World Records does not acknowledge their claim as an actual record - is this because it has not been released for the main public to view?
I understand the 'semi public' can view it however? I am obviously not apart of the semi public or I would have seen it already, anyone who believes all they hear or read (without first seeing solid evidence) is a bit of a fool imho.

Kipchoge (Kenya) broke the 2 hr barrier in the marathon in a non traditional race format a couple months back, it was live streamed and OPEN for GENERAL PUBLIC to see on the tube. I do not see the same transparency in relation to schmidt and charlie's claim of this mystery 626 or the bca for that matter. Please note that I have competed against John many times in 14.1 and I acknowledge that he is an accomplished Straight Pool player who is capable of running 600 + on a 5" pocket table - I just want to know why they have not released the tape for the people to see. Please keep in mind that if they have not drawn a line around the triangle for us to see what balls are in or out of the rack - I would immediately discredit this run, if there is no line drawn around triangle - they will be using a large/thick triangle to rack with - as to help create more space for possible break shots. Till I see evidence - I will remain very skeptical. All of John's new sponsors / 14.1 hall of fame deal happened after the bca announced his new record - without releasing any footage to the general public. There seems to be some hidden pockets here - all I'm asking for is a little clarity on this mystery tape. Otherwise there just using his name to make a phony claim. My record against him is good in tournament competition - so I really have nothing to be jealous about ha ha. Besides I have no big sponsors and would probly never practice on 5" pockets anyhue.

Not really sure the difference between the semi public and general public - but it does sound kinda divisive, Anyone care to comment on why only the 'semi public' are allowed to see the private viewing of this tape? Just because of my list of accomplishments in the 14.1 discipline - does not give me anymore of a right to see proof, I am just like the rest of the general public - not allowed to see evidence after 9 months of this possible phony claim. Also if u believe everything u hear I am not interested in yer input either. I really feel that in order for john to get the hall of fame and new cue sponsor deal he had to come up with some new accomplishment - so they targeted Mosconi's record and then this hidden pocket mystery tape. The reason they will not release or try to market it in a traditional way - because the tape will not pass and has been altered. I am not the only one with this opinion either. his new cue sponsor will soon be trying to sell a cue that says mr. 626, the cue will probly be available to general public for sale but I would imagine they (the powers at b) will hide the tape for some time from the general public. I think semi public = john's facebook followers/ oblivious sheep.

I think the record is legit. For one, I've seen JS' other runs, and though his patterns are very unorthodox, his shotmaking and short position control are out of this world. He has several legit 400+ runs, and 626 isn't far fetched, given enough attempts.

Even IF the run is a fake and doctored in some way, I do not posess the expertise to determine that this is the case. If there is any professional involved in that hypothetical forgery, it would pretty much be impossible for a layman to spot.

We do not have any "claim" to be able to view the video, it's his to do with as he wishes. It's sad that he chose the route he did, mostly for the promotion of the game, but also to enthusiasts, like myself, who would very much like to see the video, for a number of reasons.

I'd love for some guy to absolutely WRECK JS' record and upload it to Youtube. Not many candidates for that task, and they weren't exactly lining up to beat the previous record either, so it may not happen for many years, if at all. Ours is a dying game.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am not sure why any of this matters anyhow- how many other sports count non-competitive achievements in their record books? We measure greats in sports by their competitive achievements, not what they do in practice- pocket billiards should be no different. John has not been among the greats in competitive 14.1, that IS on record for all to see. Guinness book records are just about conversation points and have no bearing on evaluating greatness in sports.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I am not sure why any of this matters anyhow- how many other sports count non-competitive achievements in their record books? We measure greats in sports by their competitive achievements, not what they do in practice- pocket billiards should be no different. John has not been among the greats in competitive 14.1, that IS on record for all to see. Guinness book records are just about conversation points and have no bearing on evaluating greatness in sports.

I've made this point before on the forum more than once. When I do, it is usually followed by a pronounced assault on my sanity and dignity by other posters. John's run was a fine achievement, an undeniably historic accomplishment, but only the truly delusional believe that this run places John above so many players of this era that have outperformed him in 14.1 competition.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've made this point before on the forum more than once. When I do, it is usually followed by a pronounced assault on my sanity and dignity by other posters. John's run was a fine achievement, an undeniably historic accomplishment, but only the truly delusional believe that this run places John above so many players of this era that have outperformed him in 14.1 competition.
Agree 100%. It was an exhibition run, nothing more. TOTALLY different deal than missing a ball and possibly not shooting again.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exhibition? Certainly not. JS was guaranteed an exclusive use of a table that would be out of the normal customer traffic so there would be no noticeable interference movement in his visual shooting during practice for his record attempts. Same guarantee for all record practice attempts. The attempts were only leveled for a record attempt after he reached a set score level of about 200 points. Smaller score levels noticeably below that number were cast off as non-record attempts and not even documented. So there is no real count as to how many so-called record attempts were made and discounted by js team. Most of js practice record attempts happened prior to the business even being open for customers every day. So, please if you know, include whom he performed this exhibition for. We only know of eight persons who signed as witnesses, All js team members save 2 and the business owner, none unbiased.
Sir, you REALLY need to move on from this. Wow.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
roger this

I think the record is legit. For one, I've seen JS' other runs, and though his patterns are very unorthodox, his shotmaking and short position control are out of this world. He has several legit 400+ runs, and 626 isn't far fetched, given enough attempts.

Even IF the run is a fake and doctored in some way, I do not posess the expertise to determine that this is the case. If there is any professional involved in that hypothetical forgery, it would pretty much be impossible for a layman to spot.

We do not have any "claim" to be able to view the video, it's his to do with as he wishes. It's sad that he chose the route he did, mostly for the promotion of the game, but also to enthusiasts, like myself, who would very much like to see the video, for a number of reasons.

I'd love for some guy to absolutely WRECK JS' record and upload it to Youtube. Not many candidates for that task, and they weren't exactly lining up to beat the previous record either, so it may not happen for many years, if at all. Ours is a dying game.

Thanks for your input, I still see the facts lou figuero, myself and many others feel the tape will not pass the geek squad test - and we do hold firm in our belief. Couple years ago there was a dude (on this forum who stood next to John in his avatar) who claimed to have run a large amount of racks - but no one had ever heard of him being a top 14.1 player? Turned out he had doctored the video and the geek squad graph picked up immediately on where the ball he missed had been replaced. The fellow admitted to cheating and replacing the ball in question :-0 he still posts on az today and really did not feel any remorse for trying to cheat - in fact he thought it was funny. I know john and charlie, if they thought there was $ behind pulling a hoax on the public's eye - they would not even hesitate in doing so and probly laugh bout it too.

How come John's mystery tape is not subject to the same public scrutiny as john's buddy who was caught splicing footage together here on az? I was following his progress and heard that he had a bad skid around 421, again I really believe the cue sponsor and hall of fame deadline was closing in and they produced their western that very few have been allowed to view. he and charlie williams (one of his sponsors) have only allowed maybe fifty people to see the tape - in 9 months (private semi public viewing only). Under the oblivious sheep narrative I could claim an 800 ball run and if I had a few friends in the media - I could hide the tape from public eye i.e. 'general public' and use my past wins to help give the lie a leg to stand on - I will never do that - as it is not in my dna - thank God. When there are secrets there is larceny and or corruption - period. You are right bout one facet and that is - it is sad that he and charlie chose to promote fake news to slip john into hall of fame. I have read your posts and know that you are a true student of the game, don't let charlie, bca, and nyslimes make you a media puppet. Adios and better - more honest days for our media Straight Pool. Once the run has been tested by the geek squad graph - I will believe it - there is a problem with the tape and this is why they will not release the so called footage - yes very sad indeed. Soon his new cue sponsor will come out with a 626 cue and less than 1/10th of 1% of the worlds population will have seen the footage of this 'mystery tape' - very sad our drive by news media is - very sad. Check out when I played him a race to 400 an a tight diamond tar match for big $ - oh his sponsors may keep that hidden from the general public as well. Anyone who needs a copy - talk to me.
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for your input, I still see the facts lou figuero, myself and many others feel the tape will not pass the geek squad test - and we do hold firm in our belief. Couple years ago there was a dude (on this forum who stood next to John in his avatar) who claimed to have run a large amount of racks - but know one had ever heard of him being a top 14.1 player? Turned out he had doctored the video and the geek squad graph picked up immediately on where the ball he missed had been replaced. The fellow admitted to cheating and replacing the ball in question :-0 he still posts on az today and really did not feel any remorse for trying to cheat - in fact he thought it was funny. I know john and charlie, if they thought there was $ behind pulling a hoax on the public's eye - they would not even hesitate in doing so and probly laugh bout it too.

How come John's mystery tape is not subject to the same public scrutiny as john's buddy who was caught splicing footage together here on az? I was following his progress and heard that he had a bad skid around 421, again I really believe the cue sponsor and hall of fame deadline was closing in and they produced their western that very few have been allowed to view. he and charlie williams (one of his sponsors) have only allowed maybe fifty people to see the tape - in 9 months (private semi public viewing only). Under the oblivious sheep narrative I could claim an 800 ball run and if I had a few friends in the media - I could hide the tape from public eye i.e. general public and use my past wins to help give the lie a leg to stand on - I will never do that - as it is not in my dna - thank God. When there are secrets there is larceny and or corruption - period. You are right bout one facet and that is - it is sad that he and charlie chose to promote fake news to slip john into hall of fame. I have read your posts and know that you are a true student of the game, don't let charlie, bca, and nyslimes make you a media puppet. Adios and better - more honest days for our media Straight Pool. Once the run has been tested by the geek squad graph - I will believe it - there is a problem with the tape and this is why they will not release the so called footage - yes very sad indeed. Soon his new cue sponsor will come out with a 626 cue and less than 1% of the worlds population will have seen the footage - very sad our drive by news media is - very sad. Check out when I played him a race to 400 an a tight diamond tar match for big $ - oh his sponsors may keep that hidden from the general public as well. Anyone who needs a copy - talk to me.


OK, since I've been mentioned by name, (sort of, lol), I'll say this: I would like to see an unedited version of the tape.

I do not have faith in the BCA and I do not have faith in anyone's say-so for this level of claimed accomplishment. That is not a slam against JS. It is simply the old Carl Sagan standard, which I have quoted several times before: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

So, before anyone launches into the old -- there's no video of Mosconi's run -- yes, that's true. But that really wasn't readily available in his day and certainly not on the the night of a one-off, run-of-the-mill exhibition on his schedule. Thankfully, someone had the foresight to gather the signatures for an affidavit so we would have some faith in the run besides Mosconi's say-so. However, if Mosconi had made his run in today's day and age, I think all would agree it would be reasonable to ask for the video so we could all review it. Same for JS.

Frankly, the fact that video evidence of JS's run is being so closely guarded -- supposedly for financially related reasons -- gives me (and should give all of you) pause.

I mean: what financial reasons?

At this stage of the game, JS's approach to marketing the run is an unmitigated disaster. Having waited so long vs striking while interest was strong right after the run was accomplished, it will be a miracle now if he eventually recoups anything of monetary significance.

So did he do it? Probably.

BUT -- were there questionable issues with the run, fouls, and/or equipment that would give the average 14.1 aficionado pause... maybe. We may never know.

Lou Figueroa
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are a lot of legitimate questions regarding this 626 run that are only gaining more and more traction by John’s refusal to release a video of the entire run. Personally I’m not going to consider it as legit until I carefully watch the entire run. As a lifelong 14.1 player, I’m just very curious as to how many extremely hard shots he had to make to keep this run alive? If it turns out to be too many, I’ll just form my own opinion as to whether or not to believe it.
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok after reading a few things I will break my silence of sorts. Danny I will say exactly what Ive said before many times. I consider you a friend and I have gotten fortunate enough to see many of the games greatest play and spoke to many that are no longer around including Mosconi and Lassiter.
As I am a historian and an accomplished player of a few high runs myself I have said I considered you to have what is considered a very boring straight pool game because you have such great patterns and always seem to shoot the right shots at the right time with the best cue ball control with all the elite players that have ever played. I have seen you completely dominate several tournaments including Peter Burrows straight pool events literally like you were just practicing taking about the same time between each shot and 50% or better of your shots hitting with the same speed.
As far as you starting this thread and the history between you and Schmidt no one should have any issues with anything you have to say as absolutely you have earned the right as I also have been a victim of Johns completely inappropriate behavior. I never once started the issues between us as it was John and when we spoke several times before I always liked to root him on as he is truly one of our best American 14.1 players. Johns behavior to destroy and put down everything around him to gain advantages and to satisfy his ego is the worse of any top player Ive ever seen. I would recommend to you Danny to just let it go and be the better person as for the people that don't know his character as ive just stated about few have ever been around him enough times and the ones to defend him are the pure nuthuggers and most of them don't understand enough about pool to know about sharking or even have ever ran 50 balls to know about 14.1 anyways. I hope Johns recent runs would help our game but its not looking that way at the moment.
 
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