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Need help with 3 rails w/high inside
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madjammer
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Need help with 3 rails w/high inside - 10-18-2015, 05:52 PM

Been shooting some rail shot drills and recently developed a problem that is leaving me baffled. Object ball frozen to rail one to two diamonds from pocket shooting between 25-35 degrees on most shots. The videos I've seen of high level players doing this usually has the cue ball hitting around the middle diamond on the short rail, then somewhere around the second diamond on the long rail opposite of the object ball. When I shoot the shot using high inside my cue ball path is more towards the opposite corner pocket or around the third diamond, and the first diamond in the long rail. I'm usually making the ball. Am I using the wrong spin to (more/less top and/or inside) or am I hitting the ball too thin or thick? 10:30 & 2:30 is about where I'm cueing.
  
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victorl
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10-18-2015, 06:44 PM

You don't need high ball on that shot, aim center or even slightly below center, hit it smooth and let the spin do all the work.
  
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10-18-2015, 07:55 PM

What cue ball?

How many tips from center are you hitting?
  
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10-18-2015, 08:20 PM

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Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
What cue ball?

How many tips from center are you hitting?
When shooting off the right long rail for example I'm using close to maximum top left.
  
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10-18-2015, 08:25 PM

It is common to not be hitting the point on the cueball where you think you are.

Try this shot using a striped ball as the cueball, orient the number (I prefer to use the 11 ball) so it is facing you as you address the shot. When you complete the shot look for a chalk mark on the ball. Compare this mark to where you intended to hit the cueball, and what the path of the CB was after the shot.

Realize that everyones stroke is different, so you must work on this shot varying the amount of sidespin with how much of the ball you hit on the rail. Small differences will lead to different results on a shot like this.

Good rolls.

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10-18-2015, 08:30 PM

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Originally Posted by victorl View Post
You don't need high ball on that shot, aim center or even slightly below center, hit it smooth and let the spin do all the work.
Thanks for the tip. I will try that tomorrow night. I just assumed I needed follow on the shot to reach the short rail quicker.
  
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10-18-2015, 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_in_MD View Post
It is common to not be hitting the point on the cueball where you think you are.

Try this shot using a striped ball as the cueball, orient the number (I prefer to use the 11 ball) so it is facing you as you address the shot. When you complete the shot look for a chalk mark on the ball. Compare this mark to where you intended to hit the cueball, and what the path of the CB was after the shot.

Realize that everyones stroke is different, so you must work on this shot varying the amount of sidespin with how much of the ball you hit on the rail. Small differences will lead to different results on a shot like this.

Good rolls.

AJM
Thanks for the reply, I will test with a stripe or my Jim Rempe ball. I've gotten fairly decent with delivering the tip where I intend but it's definitely possible I'm doing something different on this shot. Definitely struggling with the route.
  
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10-19-2015, 01:05 AM

How hard you hit this shot has a big effect on the outcome. On the super fast tables the pros use they hardly have to hit the ball, meaning the topspin takes sooner making it hit the short rail where it does. Try hitting it softer.
  
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10-19-2015, 04:05 AM

Be sure you're not hitting rail first.

pj
chgo
  
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10-19-2015, 05:31 AM

If I'm reading the OP's post correctly, he's saying that the cb is traveling too wide off the first rail before it hits the second rail. That sounds like he's not hitting the cb high enough.

Make sure you're hitting the ball where you aim, and if you are, aim higher.
  
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10-19-2015, 05:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Be sure you're not hitting rail first.

pj
chgo
This.

Make sure you are hitting ball first. It seems wrong until you see it work.


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10-19-2015, 09:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Fields View Post
This.

Make sure you are hitting ball first. It seems wrong until you see it work.
I don't think that's such a big factor with a ball frozen to the rail if the shooter is using topspin with inside. The hit has to be nearly simultaneous---rail and ball--- for the ball to go in the pocket. If the ob was off the rail a bit, then it's a different story.

However, it becomes a bigger factor if the shooter is hitting the ball lower with inside.
  
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10-19-2015, 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjammer View Post
When shooting off the right long rail for example I'm using close to maximum top left.
Sorry for the delay. I was busy.

You did not say what cue ball & that makes a difference.

But... I agree with Ms. Crimi.

It's a simple matter. You're using a combination of 'spin', top & side.

If the ball is not going 'forward' enough, then hit higher.

You may need to hit at 11:00 or maybe at 11:25. It's a feel thing that comes with experience.

The reason I asked about the cue ball is that the Red Circle Ball usually needs more top as it has less momentum due to being a bit light & also 'bouncier'.

Good Luck with it, but just play around with it til you get the feel for it.

Best Wishes.

Last edited by ENGLISH!; 10-19-2015 at 05:49 PM.
  
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10-20-2015, 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Be sure you're not hitting rail first.

pj
chgo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
I don't think that's such a big factor with a ball frozen to the rail if the shooter is using topspin with inside. The hit has to be nearly simultaneous---rail and ball--- for the ball to go in the pocket. If the ob was off the rail a bit, then it's a different story.

However, it becomes a bigger factor if the shooter is hitting the ball lower with inside.
It may be unlikely that it's a rail-first hit, but if it is then all of the sidespin is taken out of play until the CB hits the 2nd rail, and only follow is available to change the angle off the 1st rail.

pj
chgo
  
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10-20-2015, 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
It may be unlikely that it's a rail-first hit, but if it is then all of the sidespin is taken out of play until the CB hits the 2nd rail, and only follow is available to change the angle off the 1st rail.

pj
chgo

Top inside would be necessary of course. Not just topspin.

I think that for a rail-first hit on a frozen shot to be any kind of a factor at the 25-35 degree angle the op mentioned, the hit would have to be low inside. That widens the angle of the cb off the rail, which could allow the shooter to hit rail-first slightly farther behind the ob than with he would with topspin. But even then, it's really close.
  
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