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Michael Webb
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09-16-2020, 06:42 AM

I've been around a long time and seen a lot of stuff.
All I can say about doing joint screws when the Cue is over sized is:
Concave dead center and or Collet chuck.


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Michael Webb
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cueman
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09-16-2020, 08:05 AM

Use joint protector or joint dummy with center hole in the end will give you a turning center. This it what I do when cutting a wrap groove on a wrapless cue. Same thing goes for a shaft that gets turned down with a joint already installed. A wood plug put in place of the rubber bumper then center drilled gives a turning center hole for the butt end of the cue. Those three tricks should worth a steak dinner. Anyone want to take me out? Okay, I will be happy with a hamburger.

Last edited by cueman; 09-16-2020 at 06:07 PM.
  
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09-16-2020, 08:25 AM

Regardless when the pin is installed, the shaft centers on the OD of the pin. Not a center in the pin (if any). Plus i use G10 pins. So install them after the final cut, then install the sanding mandrel which was made for a snug fit on the pin, and continue with sanding, etc.

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BarenbruggeCues
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09-16-2020, 10:56 AM

The more I read, the more confused I get.

Quote:
the shaft centers on the OD of the pin
Quote:
This it what I do when cutting a wrap groove on a wrapless cue
Quote:
I dont need a center hole in the pin to put anythings between the center, I always work with a steady rest and special tool adaptor that I made myself.
Quote:
You have two inch long thread mill ?
  
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JoeyInCali
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09-16-2020, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarenbruggeCues View Post
The more I read, the more confused I get.
How to thread shafts is next .
  
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cueman
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09-16-2020, 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarenbruggeCues View Post
The more I read, the more confused I get.
What confuses you about cutting a wrap groove into a wrapless cue. People do ask for that pretty often.
  
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09-16-2020, 06:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueman View Post
. . . . . .Those three tricks should worth a steak dinner. Anyone want to take me out? Okay, I will be happy with a hamburger.
Chris,
I think we all have learned enough from you over the years that we at least owe you a Wagyu burger!


Player - GBCues 18oz BEM Front, Leather Wrap, and Black Walnut Buttcap Player. OB-2 Shaft
BreakStick - GBCues 17oz Marblewood Front, Leather Wrap, Mahogany Butt Cap (Black Walnut Shaft)
  
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09-17-2020, 01:03 AM

I fit the pin and do the joint work on my cues as the very last thing.
But I have only made my own design of carbon fibre cues.
Even the ones that do have maple to make up the diameter to suite an existing handle or for the newer handles I did that had the carbon of the handle as a core, the pin and joint detail I did last.
If you are going to damage the finish while installing the pin or the joint thread detail, either the finish is a very low quality and soft, or the way you are holding the parts is wrong.


Neil Lickfold.
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EL Picos
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Smile 09-17-2020, 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueman View Post
Use joint protector or joint dummy with center hole in the end will give you a turning center. This it what I do when cutting a wrap groove on a wrapless cue. Same thing goes for a shaft that gets turned down with a joint already installed. A wood plug put in place of the rubber bumper then center drilled gives a turning center hole for the butt end of the cue. Those three tricks should worth a steak dinner. Anyone want to take me out? Okay, I will be happy with a hamburger.

You win Cueman, I always work like that + with a steady rest for installing the joint conndections, the steady rest is more an option than necessary for pool cue but yess when you want the highest precision, when I chamber a rifle barrel I turn a taper pilot holder directly in the 3 jaws chuck to put that to 0.00000000 and I have the same taper pilot in a live center, take a cut on barrel and put the steady rest, like that the job is perfectly centered, also when i make special adapter with center hole, I always take a 60 degrees cut after the use of the center drill bit. For the highest accuracy we have to think that the tailstock is never perfectly height centered with the lathe spindle. I'm not sure that I have somethings to learn from Joey!
  
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Michael Webb
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09-17-2020, 07:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EL Picos View Post
You win Cueman, I always work like that + with a steady rest for installing the joint conndections, the steady rest is more an option than necessary for pool cue but yess when you want the highest precision, when I chamber a rifle barrel I turn a taper pilot holder directly in the 3 jaws chuck to put that to 0.00000000 and I have the same taper pilot in a live center, take a cut on barrel and put the steady rest, like that the job is perfectly centered, also when i make special adapter with center hole, I always take a 60 degrees cut after the use of the center drill bit. For the highest accuracy we have to think that the tailstock is never perfectly height centered with the lathe spindle. I'm not sure that I have somethings to learn from Joey!
I try to learn something from everyone, even if it just helps me understand someone's thought process.
So Thank you
I learned something from you.


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Michael Webb
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JoeyInCali
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09-17-2020, 07:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueman View Post
Use joint protector or joint dummy with center hole in the end will give you a turning center. This it what I do when cutting a wrap groove on a wrapless cue. Same thing goes for a shaft that gets turned down with a joint already installed. A wood plug put in place of the rubber bumper then center drilled gives a turning center hole for the butt end of the cue. Those three tricks should worth a steak dinner. Anyone want to take me out? Okay, I will be happy with a hamburger.
If the screw has a center hole, I make the J/p shorter and mill a slot on it for the spur driver.
That would turning between centers , literally.
And if you CNc it, make sure you account for the joint screw. If not, you're going to mill the forearm around the 10.75" mark.

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09-17-2020, 08:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
I try to learn something from everyone, even if it just helps me understand someone's thought process.
So Thank you
I learned something from you.
Happy to ear that, It's nice to share knowledge and to learn somethings new everyday, every body have to learn from others!
  
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Ssonerai
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09-17-2020, 09:39 AM

Quote:
Quote:
the shaft centers on the OD of the pin
Doubting you are really confused since many of your own posts touch on fairly rigorous practical concepts of precision, nonetheless:

It may work for many, but i have not found the center pop in pins completely reliable.
Not least because my choice of G10 pins are somewhat flexible. I was also badly frightened in early days, back in the mid-80's upon discovery of how easy it was to bend a stainless, least of all brass pin, when installing or changing it.

Due to stack tolerance - the pin is added to the system after it was machined, and after the cue was machined. Even with the pin perfectly centered in a live threaded hole by the cuemaker, the actual projected pin might vary from perfectly co-axial with the original center pop installed for the convenience of the machinist who made it. Material moves from stresses induced, or alternately, relieved, by the machining process. The forces of the machining process may also contribute.

Potential issues can be avoided by machining the part including the threads, then setting back up between centers and grinding the threads as a final operation. Is this typical for cue parts?

Per the part of my post that you quoted, after the pin is installed in the butt, the shaft does not care about the location of the center pop - it registers on the threads, or on the flats between the threads of the pin depending on style of pin.

So I do all machining on the butt, install the pin, then screw the pin into my sanding mandrel sub-arbor with the appropriate collar mounted. The sanding mandrel has a carefully made center pop concentric with the other features.

Or are we all just bored?

smt
  
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09-17-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssonerai View Post
Doubting you are really confused since many of your own posts touch on fairly rigorous practical concepts of precision, nonetheless:

It may work for many, but i have not found the center pop in pins completely reliable.
Not least because my choice of G10 pins are somewhat flexible. I was also badly frightened in early days, back in the mid-80's upon discovery of how easy it was to bend a stainless, least of all brass pin, when installing or changing it.

Due to stack tolerance - the pin is added to the system after it was machined, and after the cue was machined. Even with the pin perfectly centered in a live threaded hole by the cuemaker, the actual projected pin might vary from perfectly co-axial with the original center pop installed for the convenience of the machinist who made it. Material moves from stresses induced, or alternately, relieved, by the machining process. The forces of the machining process may also contribute.

Potential issues can be avoided by machining the part including the threads, then setting back up between centers and grinding the threads as a final operation. Is this typical for cue parts?

Per the part of my post that you quoted, after the pin is installed in the butt, the shaft does not care about the location of the center pop - it registers on the threads, or on the flats between the threads of the pin depending on style of pin.

So I do all machining on the butt, install the pin, then screw the pin into my sanding mandrel sub-arbor with the appropriate collar mounted. The sanding mandrel has a carefully made center pop concentric with the other features.

Or are we all just bored?

smt
The end goal is very simple for me. When I put the shaft onto the butt and screw it tight, I lay the joint collar of the butt up on the rail with the tip out in space and give it a roll. As long as the there is no visible movement in the tip I have done everything I was suppose to do. Isn't that the end goal for everyone?
Now which was it again? The chicken or the egg?
  
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09-17-2020, 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarenbruggeCues View Post
The end goal is very simple for me. When I put the shaft onto the butt and screw it tight, I lay the joint collar of the butt up on the rail with the tip out in space and give it a roll. As long as the there is no visible movement in the tip I have done everything I was suppose to do. Isn't that the end goal for everyone?
Now which was it again? The chicken or the egg?
What happens if you have an 6 or 8 pointer and you install the screw while the joint size is half a mm oversized ?

How do I turn this now ? Uniloc QR screw installed.
Should I drill a center hole?
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