"Diamondizing" a Gold Crown III.. In Germany

J

Johnnybgood

Banned
Ok...my experience. I had a gold grown 3. I replaced the cushions myself with Artemis cushions. Did it play bad? No! Did it play different? Yes! So I ordered a NEW set of Superspeeds. At the exact same time I realized that I would never achieve the play I wanted. At least without doing a complete sub rail extension. So, when I determined this and also determined the amount of time it would take to do such ( in my case sending the rails to mark) I decided and also had the cash’s do do so I figured why not order what I really wanted. Which in my case was a GCV Tournament addition. Now this is not in most people’s budget. I get that. A diamond pro am is half the cost literally. I was in the position to do so. I have my issues with this table. Trust me I have. The QC coming from bruswick is terrible these days. I should emphasize TERRIBLE! I won’t go into details but, it wasn’t pleasurable by any means. Especially for the price. Am I happy? Hell yea! Ultimately I got what I consider to be the best playing table on the planet not to mention the best looking table. Brunswick went through great pains to not only make the best looking commercial table EVER produced but also a table that played as well as name implied. As mentioned it has it has its issues. The table plays fantastic. Which is why I went Brunswick. It has that sound when you nail that center pocket at warp speed, which you will never get out of a diamond. EVER! The fact that you can replace every part on that table. The longer extended rails, the slight taper of the rails that allow you to bridge comfortably at the very end when the cue ball it frozen on the rail. There are many improvements beyond the mechanics standpoint that make this table amazing yet are never talked about but felt (no pun intended). It’s predictable in every way. Diamonds are diamonds. They are a block of wood. Square, ugly, and no those corners are not flush, never have been and never will be with that design. They have a leather (dull sounding) stale casting that extrudes right over those pockets. They have never been flush. They play springy, they come off the rails fast on a slow surface. They are completely unpredictable. That statement means the most. They are unpredictable. I don’t care what pros were involved in the design and concept of that table. It’s a different playing table. End of story and I am not a fan by any means. I think they are a regression of the sport as a whole. In the places I have played where there are mixed tables, people avoid them. When there is no other table to play they are played.

Now with that said, when playing one hole, they are a dream. Tight banks and fast rebounds are exactly what you want. So one hole players love them. But they are not the pool tables we grew up with.

That’s 26 cents worth of reality.


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ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Johnnybgood said:
Diamonds are diamonds. They are a block of wood. Square, ugly, and no those corners are not flush, never have been and never will be with that design. They have a leather (dull sounding) stale casting that extrudes right over those pockets. They have never been flush. They play springy, they come off the rails fast on a slow surface. They are completely unpredictable. That statement means the most. They are unpredictable. I don’t care what pros were involved in the design and concept of that table. It’s a different playing table. End of story and I am not a fan by any means. I think they are a regression of the sport as a whole. In the places I have played where there are mixed tables, people avoid them. When there is no other table to play they are played.
Click to expand...

Ok, you convinced me... I'm getting a Diamond...

Lol.. But on a serious note... I just called Glen and spoke with him a few minutes, and he reiterated that there is a Diamond dealership in Finland, and reminded me that I will probably have very little issue with selling a Diamond if I just decide to get a new Blue Label, which I think he is correct about.

I'm probably gonna still go check out the table in Kaiserslautern tomorrow, but it might be a lot faster, and close to the same cost, if I just buy the Diamond. It would cost me a thousand or more to have the Gold Crown properly fixed, and it's doubtful that I would lose that much in resale value if I had to sell the Diamond later.

Short Bus Russ
 
J

Johnnybgood

Banned
ShortBusRuss said:
Ok, you convinced me... I'm getting a Diamond...



Lol.. But on a serious note... I just called Glen and spoke with him a few minutes, and he reiterated that there is a Diamond dealership in Finland, and reminded me that I will probably have very little issue with selling a Diamond if I just decide to get a new Blue Label, which I think he is correct about.



I'm probably gonna still go check out the table in Kaiserslautern tomorrow, but it might be a lot faster, and close to the same cost, if I just buy the Diamond. It would cost me a thousand or more to have the Gold Crown properly fixed, and it's doubtful that I would lose that much in resale value if I had to sell the Diamond later.



Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...



That was a good move. Calling Glenn was the best thing you could do. I wish you the best. I spent a day trying to explain that you couldn’t make a GC a Diamond. My usual fee is 20%.


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Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
ShortBusRuss said:
Well... Artemis is a German brand, so I should actually be able to get it a little cheaper here, due to no export costs, yes? I would not think I need to order it directly from Brunswick..

Also,, You refer to "Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions that properly fit the Brunswick K66 profile".. It was my understanding that the Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions are actually a K55 profile, and are just unfortunately named, causing some confusion...

In summary, are you saying that both Gold Crowns and Diamonds use a K55 cushion profile, so the main work involved is simply extending the subrail properly and making sure the pocket angles/size are correct?

Thanks,

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

66 or 55...I must of of got the number 5 and six mixed up, but if I remember correctly, Artemis cushions are already extended making them the same as DCC.

The GC profile fits the Diamond. In actuality, Artemis must of began listening to the European pros....because of that they designed rails that might play similar to Snooker. Brunswick had its cushions and nose height/angle figured out pretty well, but this is the 21st century.

Now....the cushions at DCC, I feel are better quality, tighter specs than earlier Brunswick rails.

1990 Diamonds first table release, they miscued BIG TIME on their beginning cushions, I hated those tables. Are the rail profiles K55 for the firsts Diamonds? my Guess they have to be...But???

Good move, the Europeans knew Brunswick had it right a long time ago (cushion/nose height etc). If it were not for the European tour, the rails may of never been where they are at now. They have allot of knowledge because of their Snooker background.

When you get your set....There's no shims.

I'm still dealing with builders:(. kinda, good luck with your project!
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
I wonder how a red label would play with Superspeed.
Click to expand...

I talked with RKC and he said the Superspeed would work as a replacement on the red label.

The early red Label models came with Championship Fleetwood K55 cushions (they don't make these anymore), Championship Tour Edition K55 would be comparable for a modern replacement. Was not until the end of the Red Label production that Diamond switched to Artemis. I have 5 red label professionals in my inventory right now and happen to have a client that wants to use the Superspeed as a replacement.

Trent from Toledo
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
trentfromtoledo said:
I talked with RKC and he said the Superspeed would work as a replacement on the red label.

The early red Label models came with Championship Fleetwood K55 cushions (they don't make these anymore), Championship Tour Edition K55 would be comparable for a modern replacement. Was not until the end of the Red Label production that Diamond switched to Artemis. I have 5 red label professionals in my inventory right now and happen to have a client that wants to use the Superspeed as a replacement.

Trent from Toledo
Click to expand...
No need to blue label it then.
The original Diamond had Superspeeed before they went with Championship AFAIK.
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
Island Drive said:
66 or 55...I must of of got the number 5 and six mixed up, but if I remember correctly, Artemis cushions are already extended making them the same as DCC.

The GC profile fits the Diamond. In actuality, Artemis must of began listening to the European pros....because of that they designed rails that might play similar to Snooker. Brunswick had its cushions and nose height/angle figured out pretty well, but this is the 21st century.

Now....the cushions at DCC, I feel are better quality, tighter specs than earlier Brunswick rails.

1990 Diamonds first table release, they miscued BIG TIME on their beginning cushions, I hated those tables. Are the rail profiles K55 for the firsts Diamonds? my Guess they have to be...But???

Good move, the Europeans knew Brunswick had it right a long time ago (cushion/nose height etc). If it were not for the European tour, the rails may of never been where they are at now. They have allot of knowledge because of their Snooker background.

When you get your set....There's no shims.

I'm still dealing with builders:(. kinda, good luck with your project!
Click to expand...


P.S. k66 do not fit on the older brunswicks, play on one with them and you will understand why!
 
ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
So, at the end of the day... Found a badass new place to rent, 5 minutes further away than my previous 10 minute commute.. Attic has a full 18x20 space to put a 9 footer in..

Now, I just need the Diamond dealer in Finland to respond to my email question on whether they have three slate Diamonds available to deliver.

Short Bus Russ
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
ShortBusRuss said:
So, at the end of the day... Found a badass new place to rent, 5 minutes further away than my previous 10 minute commute.. Attic has a full 18x20 space to put a 9 footer in..

Now, I just need the Diamond dealer in Finland to respond to my email question on whether they have three slate Diamonds available to deliver.

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

Money saving advice, take it or leave it:

Buy it directly from Diamond, have them ship it to you and pay the local installer to install it for you. If you need help making this happen I am willing to help out a fellow pool player in need. I know an EXCELLENT export shipping company. I shipped a Brunswick Anniversary to Antwerp Belgium for $650. Their will be import taxes and customs fee's, but, it will save you a lot of money!

Trent from Toledo

00q0q_2jwvR3akmBd_600x450.jpg
 
ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
trentfromtoledo said:
Money saving advice, take it or leave it:

Buy it directly from Diamond, have them ship it to you and pay the local installer to install it for you. If you need help making this happen I am willing to help out a fellow pool player in need. I know an EXCELLENT export shipping company. I shipped a Brunswick Anniversary to Antwerp Belgium for $650. Their will be import taxes and customs fee's, but, it will save you a lot of money!

Trent from Toledo

00q0q_2jwvR3akmBd_600x450.jpg
Click to expand...

To be considered is the fact that I am sure that import tax for Germany is 20%. I think that Finland / Germany are both European Union countries, so there is no import tax, and I may very well be able to use a VAT form to not pay any sales tax on the tanle at all, depending on if the VAT applies to goods purchased from another EU country.

Also, keep in mind that the table would be shipped from the U.S. to the only port in Germany, which is Bremerhaven, which is some hours away. Granted, not as far away as driving from Finland once across the ferry, but who knows..

If you have done this before and are willing to get the numbers for what it would cost to ship specifically to Germany, and be willing to handle the process start to finish, I'd be willing to buy it from you. I would just need time frames on hw soonmit could be shipped. We move jnto the new place around mid August, so would be looking to get the table here and installed by mid September if at all possible.

Thanks,

Russ
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
ShortBusRuss said:
To be considered is the fact that I am sure that import tax for Germany is 20%. I think that Finland / Germany are both European Union countries, so there is no import tax, and I may very well be able to use a VAT form to not pay any sales tax on the tanle at all, depending on if the VAT applies to goods purchased from another EU country.

Also, keep in mind that the table would be shipped from the U.S. to the only port in Germany, which is Bremerhaven, which is some hours away. Granted, not as far away as driving from Finland once across the ferry, but who knows..

If you have done this before and are willing to get the numbers for what it would cost to ship specifically to Germany, and be willing to handle the process start to finish, I'd be willing to buy it from you. I would just need time frames on hw soonmit could be shipped. We move jnto the new place around mid August, so would be looking to get the table here and installed by mid September if at all possible.

Thanks,

Russ
Click to expand...

IMO, (correct me if I am wrong of course) the company that imported it to Finland would surely pay import tax from the U.S. and would pass that along to you in their price.

As for September, I think that it would be more like end of the month/ early October due to the 10-12 week wait at the factory. Not to far off your target though.

I am always down to do sales that involve fun logistics! As I mentioned I shipped a restored Brunswick Anniversary to Antwerp, Belgium with no problems. I will do some research and come up with a price for you that would include: the cost of the table, crating/ shipping to the export shipping company, insuring it and freighting it to Bremerhaven, Germany. You would be responsible for what ever customs/ import taxes would be involved in Germany. To insure it everything has to be declared properly. Lets chat on the phone after you get a quote over there and do some comparison.

Trent from Toledo (419)491-7476
 
J

Johnnybgood

Banned
trentfromtoledo said:
IMO, (correct me if I am wrong of course) the company that imported it to Finland would surely pay import tax from the U.S. and would pass that along to you in their price.



As for September, I think that it would be more like end of the month/ early October due to the 10-12 week wait at the factory. Not to far off your target though.



I am always down to do sales that involve fun logistics! As I mentioned I shipped a restored Brunswick Anniversary to Antwerp, Belgium with no problems. I will do some research and come up with a price for you that would include: the cost of the table, crating/ shipping to the export shipping company, insuring it and freighting it to Bremerhaven, Germany. You would be responsible for what ever customs/ import taxes would be involved in Germany. To insure it everything has to be declared properly. Lets chat on the phone after you get a quote over there and do some comparison.



Trent from Toledo (419)491-7476
Click to expand...



There is a beautiful used one for sale on here with a light. You would save a bundle on that.


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