BCA league night - foul or no foul?

TheNewSharkster

TheNewSharkster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sbpoolleague said:
You can easily double-hit the cue ball and still impart backspin.
Here is a good slo-mo video which shows how...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubbAzu_sCS4

The shot in the OP's video is a foul because the angle taken was not fine enough.

BCAPL Rule 1-30.2
It is a foul if your cue tip is still in contact with the cue ball when the cue ball strikes an object ball. However, such a stroke may be considered legal if the object ball is legal and cue ball strikes it at a VERY FINE ANGLE. (from the Applied Rulings section) The term "fine angle" used in Rule 1-30-2 is often referred to in various other ways, including the common terms "thinning", "feathering", "sharp cut" or "barely grazing". However, when attempting to avoid a foul by complying with the provisions of the rule, there is not necessarily a particular angle that will guarantee a legal shot in any given circumstance. Whether a shot of this type is legal is affected by several factors, and the referee's judgment is final.
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Cool video. Thanks for sharing. You're right, it looks just like one of the double hits in the video. One point of interest is even at 1000 frames per second it only barely double hits the cue ball. It is impossible to "see" a double hit like that with your eyes. So, realistically, is the only way to determine foul based on the cue ball going forward before it comes back?
 
S

SWRLE

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Careyp74 said:
Look again. Put your mouse on the contact point before the shot, watch how the cue ball jumps over it completely.
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So what? Jumping the cue ball is not a foul. Cue ball moving forward after contacting object ball is not a foul either. Listening to the opinions of others does not make it a foul. There is no evidence presented that the shot was a foul.
 
K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Obvious foul. Frustrating that it isn't obvious to everyone. One very simple test for this type of thing: How far apart were the balls? How long was the follow through. In this case, case closed. I hope the ones that thought "I didn't see a foul" take the time to learn a bit more about it. The videos referenced by Bob Jewett for the referee test are very informative.

KMRUNOUT
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
SWRLE said:
So what? Jumping the cue ball is not a foul. Cue ball moving forward after contacting object ball is not a foul either. Listening to the opinions of others does not make it a foul. There is no evidence presented that the shot was a foul.
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The video is the evidence. To interpret that evidence it helps to understand what the balls can and cannot do within the laws of physics and to have experience with shooting such shots and making both legal and illegal hits.

Someone should have asked the shooter, did you feel the second hit in your arm?
 
C

Careyp74

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SWRLE said:
So what? Jumping the cue ball is not a foul. Cue ball moving forward after contacting object ball is not a foul either. Listening to the opinions of others does not make it a foul. There is no evidence presented that the shot was a foul.
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Exactly what are you arguing with me? Here is a hint, look at what I was replying to.
 
E

ejasons

Registered
I had a hit last week, where the two balls were about half an inch apart, I jacked up a bit, but put a touch of top on the cue, in order to have it move forward a bit. After the hit, the cue ball only moved forward about two inches, so it all looked proper.

Based on the action of the cue ball, no one would ever have called a double hit. However, I could clearly feel the double, and so called it.

For the people who think that it's a good hit: if you were to put the balls two inches apart, and hit the cue ball with the same motion, would the cue ball move forward like that? Or, stated another way, if you are hitting the cue ball with backspin, why in the world would it move forward like that, unless there was a double hit?
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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ejasons said:
... Or, stated another way, if you are hitting the cue ball with backspin, why in the world would it move forward like that, unless there was a double hit?
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Some people will claim that it was a jump shot and the cue ball leapt over the object ball. As was shown in one of the Dr. Dave videos, the jump will be a lot straighter up when the object ball starts that close to the cue ball. Unless there is a double hit, of course.
 
C

Careyp74

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
Some people will claim that it was a jump shot and the cue ball leapt over the object ball. As was shown in one of the Dr. Dave videos, the jump will be a lot straighter up when the object ball starts that close to the cue ball. Unless there is a double hit, of course.
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ok, I get it now. Had it also been a jump shot hitting the object ball above center, the cue ball would have gone a lot further down table too, maintaining more of its initial force. I agree, double hit.
 
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