Oscar Dominguez buying Hard Times Sacramento!?

MWST_Desiree · Feb 12, 2019

Bellflower isn’t for sale.

Sacramento is an amazing room. Mike and Karen need a round of applause for what they’ve created up here. Amazing pool community, well maintained space and equipment.

Oscar has always said that if could pick one established room to buy, it would be HT Sacramento. So proud and happy that his dreams and ambitions are coming to fruition.

TATE · Feb 13, 2019

Knowing Oscar, I think he will be an incredible pool room owner and manager. This will be the most challenging time of his life, but I am 100% confident he is up to the task.
I hope that he got a financially workable deal and that he realizes his dreams. For Oscar, this is a dream come true and a chance to show what he can really do. I think it would be cool and unsurprising if Ernesto moved up there too.

Expect some good tournaments, yeah!

MWST_Desiree · Feb 13, 2019

We wish we could get Ernesto to move up here! But he does have a wife, two other sons and another granddaughter all in the LA area, so I don’t think we could get him to move :-(

He will be visiting often in between his Table Repair jobs tho!

Str8PoolPlayer · Feb 13, 2019

Since losing The Jointed Cue a few months ago, the Only Real Game in Town is Hard Times in Sacramento. I was a Member at both Rooms (of and on) for many years, and have the Utmost Respect for Oscar and Ernesto. Both are True Gentlemen in every sense of the word. I look forward to Great Things for the Future of HT Sacramento.

Cornerman · Feb 13, 2019

MWST_Desiree said:
Bellflower isn’t for sale.

Sacramento is an amazing room. Mike and Karen need a round of applause for what they’ve created up here. Amazing pool community, well maintained space and equipment.

Oscar has always said that if could pick one established room to buy, it would be HT Sacramento. So proud and happy that his dreams and ambitions are coming to fruition.

We’re all wishing great success!!!

<3 <3 <3

Freddie <~~~ can’t find the heart button

AtLarge · Feb 13, 2019

MWST_Desiree said:
We wish we could get Ernesto to move up here! But he does have a wife, two other sons and another granddaughter all in the LA area, so I don’t think we could get him to move :-(

He will be visiting often in between his Table Repair jobs tho!

Will the purchase of Hard Times affect the Mezz West State Tour?

JohnnyP · Feb 13, 2019

Good question, I miss the stream.

MWST_Desiree · Feb 13, 2019

MWST will continue. More on that to come.

Jaden · Feb 13, 2019

yeah...

ChrisinNC said:
I would tend to disagree for most poolrooms, in which F&B & alcohol sales is far more than pool table rental time. There are exceptions, and it sounds like Hard Times in Sacramento may be one of them, which is likely why Oscar and Ernesto see this as a good investment, although I'm guessing it does not involve purchasing the building or propertyt. Apparently most of their +/- 30 tables are in constant use, so there is likely considerable table rental income, compared to many poolrooms.

A pool room is lucky if they can cover costs with time. Money makers are food and drink. Focus on the drink. Rooms without a liquor license don't usually last long. That's why it's important to keep people in room with leagues and tourneys.

Jaden

^^^---former room manager

jay helfert · Feb 14, 2019

Pool time can be very lucrative! My last room had 16 pool tables plus one ping pong table and two bar tables. I charged by the table, not by how many players, except during the day time (before 6pm) when I only charged $6/hr. for one player. At night all tables were $8/hr. and $10/hr. after Midnite. Ping Pong was the same rate and the bar tables were $1 a game.

During the week we would frequently have all tables going four or five hours a night and 10-12 tables going after Midnite. That could mean $600 or more in revenue each night! On weekends it was even better, with after hours and staying open until 4 or 5 AM. Typical Friday or Saturday might be over $800. The bar tables were good for another $200+ a week. You can do the math. I was only paying 3k a month in rent. Day shift table revenue (from Noon to 6pm) might be around $200 counting monthly members.

We only sold beer and wine, but that generated another $500+ a day in revenue. The full story on how to make a good living in a medium sized poolroom is spelled out in detail in More Pool Wars. I bought a couple of nice duplexes with the money I made there.

franko · Feb 14, 2019

Agree

Patrick Johnson said:
Table time is actually the most profitable "product" in any pool room, because of the very low "cost of goods" (even including rent and amortized table costs). Food, drink and other entertainment are needed to put/keep butts in the "pool seats" - but they're more like "loss leaders" than comparable profit centers.

pj
chgo

Excellent post.

Nostroke · Feb 14, 2019

Jaden said:
A pool room is lucky if they can cover costs with time. Money makers are food and drink. Focus on the drink. Rooms without a liquor license don't usually last long. That's why it's important to keep people in room with leagues and tourneys.

Jaden

^^^---former room manager

My buddy owned a room and he told me in his room which rocked on weekends, the table time was the highest profit area for him. $200/hr when they were all going as said above with little outlay after the initial table costs. I was surprised he said that but he did indeed.

ChrisinNC · Feb 14, 2019

Nostroke said:
My buddy owned a room and he told me in his room which rocked on weekends, the table time was the highest profit area for him. $200/hr when they were all going as said above with little outlay after the initial table costs. I was surprised he said that but he did indeed.

When considering the profitability of table time in a pool room, you must take in to account the 300 square feet required for a 9-foot table. In many markets / locations, the pro-rated monthly rental rate per 300 square feet may exceed $1,000 per month, for the room required for each table.

Nostroke · Feb 15, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
When considering the profitability of table time in a pool room, you must take in to account the 300 square feet required for a 9-foot table. In many markets / locations, the pro-rated monthly rental rate per 300 square feet may exceed $1,000 per month, for the room required for each table.

And you assume he didnt know this?

PS- his rent was (he closed 8-10 yrs ago) approx $5k for the whole joint-21 tables-a back office, bar, card room etc.

garczar · Feb 15, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
When considering the profitability of table time in a pool room, you must take in to account the 300 square feet required for a 9-foot table. In many markets / locations, the pro-rated monthly rental rate per 300 square feet may exceed $1,000 per month, for the room required for each table.

Are you saying $1000/mo per table footprint?? Where? NYC?

jay helfert · Feb 15, 2019

Nostroke said:
And you assume he didnt know this?

PS- his rent was (he closed 8-10 yrs ago) approx $5k for the whole joint-21 tables-a back office, bar, card room etc.

I had 7000 square feet of space and was only paying 3K a month because I had to buy all my beer from the casino. They got it for a very good price (huge volume) and marked it up 20% to me. Maybe they paid .50-60 cents for each beer (by the bottle) and sold it to me for .60-.75 cents. I was selling the same beer for 3.50-3.75 (Corona, Heineken, Bud and Bud Light, Michelob), so I was doing okay there. :wink:

8ballEinstein · Feb 15, 2019

tucson9ball said:
Guess we are spoiled here in Tucson. I play for $8 from 11AM till 6PM.
After that, the rates go up to a few dollars per hour. So, pool time is fairly cheap. Sales of alcohol is how the place pays the employees and utilities. Food sales are not bad either.
If you have good equipment and a low rate, people stick around and drink/eat. That's where the money is.....

My wife and I were in Monterey CA last year and happened across a little pool hall. We walked in and took a couple pics and asked the bar tender how much it was to play? He said it is $12hr before 6PM and $14hr after 6PM. EEEEK!!!! I observed only 2 players in the whole place. There were about 16 empty tables. Just doesn't seem like a good business model to have high rates like that.

That room in Monterey has been there for quite a while now, and seems to be doing OK. Lease rates in that area are very high. They could not survive charging a lower table rate.

I'm up in that area twice a year and play in that room when I can. The employees are always nice and seem to remember me whenever i show up.

Baby Huey · Feb 15, 2019

Table time with good equipment is the key to a successful room. Not too much, not too little. What dictates table time is the overhead. If your lease is expensive then you'll have to charge accordingly. Renting tables and staying full is the most profitable part of a successful room. I own my building so I have some flexibility with table time. Even then pool is a difficult sell especially in Southern California. We have a lot of rooms closing and a lack of interest in pool. I suspect that we will see more rooms closing. There are some rooms that manage to stay open but the owners are barely scraping by. The two successful rooms in California are Hard Times Sacramento and the California Billiard Club in Fremont. They charge fair prices for the areas they serve. It's expensive for a player to learn our game playing out of a specific room. It just costs too much.........

Runner · Feb 15, 2019

jay helfert said:
I had 7000 square feet of space and was only paying 3K a month because I had to buy all my beer from the casino. They got it for a very good price (huge volume) and marked it up 20% to me. Maybe they paid .50-60 cents for each beer (by the bottle) and sold it to me for .60-.75 cents. I was selling the same beer for 3.50-3.75 (Corona, Heineken, Bud and Bud Light, Michelob), so I was doing okay there. :wink:

Not bad, my man, not bad.. I bet some of these rooms that don't do bottles,
I.E. on tap, the cost is even lower. Get those pitchers going and the customers
stay on the table longer. I think that's how Santa Monica HOB stays afloat..
that rent must be astronomical... table time ain't cheap there, either.

garczar · Feb 15, 2019

Runner said:
Not bad, my man, not bad.. I bet some of these rooms that don't do bottles,
I.E. on tap, the cost is even lower. Get those pitchers going and the customers
stay on the table longer. I think that's how Santa Monica HOB stays afloat..
that rent must be astronomical... table time ain't cheap there, either.

https://www.hobsm.com/rates Pretty steep.

Oscar Dominguez buying Hard Times Sacramento!?

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