Run This (68)
- Thread starter CueAndMe
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F'real? You might want to check the subforum in which you asked this question. I'm confident you'll find your answer!
Now this is a layout one could tackle in a number of different ways depending on how full of a hit one has on the 12, the 11, and whether the combo 13-onto-14 into the right middle is reasonably dead (or even better, just off-straight so the 13 moves a couple of rotations - see below). Just a matter of shooting what's easiest and most comfortable, maximizing one's margin for error, and leave balls that form a stop shot end pattern, of which I'm seeing several.
For example, thinking backwards from the break ball (the 2, not exactly a secret, I'm sure) the 8 is a lead ball to the 11, which in turn forms a perfect end pattern with the 7, which would otherwise be too close to the side rail to be a perfect key ball to the break ball - easy to fall on an angle where one doesn't need to punch the cue ball to get it off the rail - however, if there's greater margin of error starting with the 11, rolling forward and shooting the 13-14 combo, I might as well do that.
I'm a pretty accurate position player myself, and I realize it may not seem like much of a problem to some, but whichever way I'd go here, I'd not want to postpone getting to that "group" of four balls to the right (1, 13, 14, 12) - although they're not blocking each others' ways to pockets, I'd surely not want to be left with the 13 and 14 there later when I'm running out of options in case I do happen to get out line (even if they do form a combo, absolutely no way I'd leave both!).
Complicated thought process, I realize, but I'm a firm believer in the idea that a great position player isn't someone who endlessly plays pinpoint position ("do or die"), but someone who tries to play pinpoint position whilst leaving him-/herself options (insurance scenarios, wherever possible multiple ones).
Unless the camera angle is deceiving, I might go 11, 13-14 combo, 12, 8, 13, 7, 1 - that is, provided I'm reading the angle on the combination correctly, the 13 should stay roughly parallel to the 1, preferably below. Regardless, nothing's set in stone before the 14's gone (the whole and perhaps only valuable point in this lengthy and rambling explanation).
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
For example, thinking backwards from the break ball (the 2, not exactly a secret, I'm sure) the 8 is a lead ball to the 11, which in turn forms a perfect end pattern with the 7, which would otherwise be too close to the side rail to be a perfect key ball to the break ball - easy to fall on an angle where one doesn't need to punch the cue ball to get it off the rail - however, if there's greater margin of error starting with the 11, rolling forward and shooting the 13-14 combo, I might as well do that.
I'm a pretty accurate position player myself, and I realize it may not seem like much of a problem to some, but whichever way I'd go here, I'd not want to postpone getting to that "group" of four balls to the right (1, 13, 14, 12) - although they're not blocking each others' ways to pockets, I'd surely not want to be left with the 13 and 14 there later when I'm running out of options in case I do happen to get out line (even if they do form a combo, absolutely no way I'd leave both!).
Complicated thought process, I realize, but I'm a firm believer in the idea that a great position player isn't someone who endlessly plays pinpoint position ("do or die"), but someone who tries to play pinpoint position whilst leaving him-/herself options (insurance scenarios, wherever possible multiple ones).
Unless the camera angle is deceiving, I might go 11, 13-14 combo, 12, 8, 13, 7, 1 - that is, provided I'm reading the angle on the combination correctly, the 13 should stay roughly parallel to the 1, preferably below. Regardless, nothing's set in stone before the 14's gone (the whole and perhaps only valuable point in this lengthy and rambling explanation).
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
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If you hold up a card on the screen against the bottoms of both balls, you can see that it is not very close to straight. I don't like it so I'd be tempted to shoot the 14 first.
Yeah, sometimes I don't participate in these because too many shots are unclear. Is the combination good enough, does this ball pass that one, and so on. So like David said, "it depends" in this case.
I agree that the thought process is more important than the actual sequence of balls played. I might take an early chance on getting a straight in shot on the 13 or 14 in an upper corner if I happen to get straight in and "can't miss."
Yeah, the angles are hard to see sometimes. My instincts were to do what you and Bob are suggesting with taking the 14 in the upper right corner, but finishing up with the end pattern that acousticsguru mentioned. So...
12, 14, 13, 8, 11, 7, 1, break with 2:
Draw slightly off of the 12 to get an angle on the 14 in the upper right corner that allows the cueball to head rightward away from the 13. Play the 13 in the left side pocket trying to get straight on the 8 for a stop shot that leads to the 11 to the 7 to the 1 in the right side pocket for a break shot on the 2.
Does the 1 pass the 12 to the lower right corner pocket? If so, then the 11 is easier than the 12 to start with. Go 11, 1 and now you have lots of choices depending on the angle you get on the 1. Of course if the 12 were obscuring part of the pocket then I wouldn't take this route.
Just an aside, as we're all Straight Pool aficionados around here, and it may seem like a moot point, but students have sometimes asked why or rather at what point I consider a ball like the 7 to be too close to a rail to serve as key ball: apart from what I already mentioned (whether or not there's a lead ball or key-to-the-key to get to it), my "definition" or rule of thumb is whether or not it's possible for (any) draw to take before the cue ball gets to the rail, which on unfamiliar (let alone new) material may be (significantly) more than a ball's width for comfort (wordy again, but hoping I'm making sense?).
(What's the point, apart from the obvious? Playing at international events, on unfamiliar, let alone freshly set up equipment, just another potential "trap" to guard against - especially on new cloth - so best not to make a bad habit of it on one's home or daily practice equipment.)
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
(What's the point, apart from the obvious? Playing at international events, on unfamiliar, let alone freshly set up equipment, just another potential "trap" to guard against - especially on new cloth - so best not to make a bad habit of it on one's home or daily practice equipment.)
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
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Interesting point that I hadn't considered. Maybe a good shot to try on a new table before a match.
Thanks!
It would be (welcome!), except, and this is the point I was implicitly trying to make, one may never get the chance! At e.g. European Championships, when the schedule is tight, the usual "one rack per player" (which may already be too little to include trying all one might have in mind) is often reduced to none (= "Players start immediately"). That's why I edited in "bad habit" in my post above - can't get a shot or whole types of shots wrong one avoids altogether.
(Also sounding like the - former - teacher I am editing in "daily" above referring to practice: "always do your homework", when everyone knows teachers tend to be people who rarely did their own either, LOL!)
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
I'm thinking that after about 300 views I'll post the videos showing what the person at the table tried to do. So here it is for this one. Darren Appleton on his way to a record-breaking 200 ball run at the 2013 World 14.1 Tournament. None of our suggestions are what he ends up doing, but I really like what he does here getting above the 13 and 14 off of the 11. Just more space up there than trying to work underneath.
at 21:38:
https://youtu.be/-T425-DvtWk?t=21m38s
at 21:38:
https://youtu.be/-T425-DvtWk?t=21m38s
Believe it or not, this is the first thing I saw, and exactly what I might have done when I was younger and in dead stroke. The reason I'd not even mentioned it is that he could easily get out of line (punching the cue ball sideways along the tangent line looks like the most natural thing to do on video - in reality, it's easy to hit the object ball too full and land short of one's target zone, not to mention hit it fractionally thinner than anticipated trying to guard against the former, especially given old and fragile nerves in play) and have to shoot the 7 from up there (it's basically the only "insurance" ball he's got - but of course, it won't cross a pro player's mind who's already been at the table all day - not to mention all week prior - that he/she could ever get out of line). Needless to say, if both the 13 and 14 passed the 12 into the corner, we'd not be leading this discussion.
Bottom line: up there but off angle is not where I'd want to be. Anyone else as old and cowardly as me? If not, more power to you!
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
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To further illustrate how cowardly one can get, it's not like I didn't "see" the option mentioned by Bob Jewett earlier in this thread: shooting the 14 immediately. Believe it or not, I'm at a point where I consider that a tough shot!
(I realize this may sound funny coming from someone who still runs three digits every once in while - but the reality is, both the 11 and 12 are easier to pocket, and shooting the easiest shot I can find at all times is the foundation on which all my better runs are built.)
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
(I realize this may sound funny coming from someone who still runs three digits every once in while - but the reality is, both the 11 and 12 are easier to pocket, and shooting the easiest shot I can find at all times is the foundation on which all my better runs are built.)
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
I hear you, David. I'm the same way. I look for tiny little stop shots, because I don't trust my eye on longer more difficult shots. Unlike you though, I also don't trust my position play. So that's why I am really into taking my time to find the easiest, most foolproof pattern. Hence, these threads. We can always learn more. :smile:
So that's why I am really into taking my time to find the easiest, most foolproof pattern. Hence, these threads. We can always learn more. :smile:
I hear you, David. I'm the same way. I look for tiny little stop shots, because I don't trust my eye on longer more difficult shots. Unlike you though, I also don't trust my position play.
Needless to say, taking one's time to find the easiest, most foolproof pattern is half the battle! :angel2:
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________
„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
play the eleven and float forward, combo on 14 next - with a promotion for the 12 ball. I would then save the thirteen for key ball. I can't see how low the 2 ball is without a clear rack line but the other option is play the two for break ball but it's looks a bit low, either way I would save the two ball for posible plan b. Might be a good note to know that this might not be the correct pattern for a beginner, if I were a beginner I would simply save the two and forget bout promo for the twelve. Many good responses here, I just like to keep break shots on the rt handers side if possible. The thirteen can also become a break shot after combo if combo is hit with top - this will hold 13 up and allow more rt hander' friendly break shots and or key ball for a break shot. just the way i see it.
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