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AtLarge
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05-10-2018, 10:42 AM

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Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I'd heard that Mosconi's 526 record exhibition high run was set on an 8-foot table with 5-1/2" corners, which would likely mean 6" sides. Can anyone who really knows for sure, please confirm the size table and pocket specs (corners and sides) of the table this record was set on, or is it unknown?
Wikipedia says they were 5". But then it says "citation needed" so that may not be reliable.

Jay Helfert has written about this several times.

From 2011: "I was in that poolroom a couple of times in the 60's and even played on the same table. It was a typical over-sized 4x8 that was popular in Midwestern poolrooms back then. Not the toughest table in the world, but not the easiest either. Those old boxes had straight cut pockets with fairly deep shelves. I'm guessing the pocket openings were just under 5". You had to hit the pockets though or the ball wasn't going in. Shooting down the rail was probably easier than most tourney tables in use today, but out on the table you had to make a clean shot."

From 2009: "It was what we called an "over sized" eight footer (46"x92" playing surface). It just seemed like a normal table to me back then. What did I know? Based on the Sport Kings that were so popular in Midwestern poolrooms at that time, I would guess the pocket openings at about 4.75". But remember the slate was fairly deep on those old tables and the pocket opening were straight cut with very stiff rails."

From 2007: "I visited East High Billiards in the 60's when my friend Russ Maddox owned it. The 4x8 tables they had there were the over sized Sport Kings (46" by 92" playing surface) with approx. four and five/eighths inch pockets. These were very popular tables in Midwestern poolrooms in that era. ... I played on these tables quite a bit growing up, and they were great pool tables. The pockets were straight cut and "stiff", and you had to hit them cleanly or the ball would not drop. The slates were not shallow either. George Rood played in that same club quite a bit and was a terrific 14.1 player. I doubt he ever ran over 200 balls there. He and Russ were friends and George often remarked that he thought Mosconi's run of 526 was amazing."

Last edited by AtLarge; 05-10-2018 at 10:56 AM.
  
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05-10-2018, 01:24 PM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Wikipedia says they were 5". But then it says "citation needed" so that may not be reliable.

Jay Helfert has written about this several times.

From 2011: "I was in that poolroom a couple of times in the 60's and even played on the same table. It was a typical over-sized 4x8 that was popular in Midwestern poolrooms back then. Not the toughest table in the world, but not the easiest either. Those old boxes had straight cut pockets with fairly deep shelves. I'm guessing the pocket openings were just under 5". You had to hit the pockets though or the ball wasn't going in. Shooting down the rail was probably easier than most tourney tables in use today, but out on the table you had to make a clean shot."

From 2009: "It was what we called an "over sized" eight footer (46"x92" playing surface). It just seemed like a normal table to me back then. What did I know? Based on the Sport Kings that were so popular in Midwestern poolrooms at that time, I would guess the pocket openings at about 4.75". But remember the slate was fairly deep on those old tables and the pocket opening were straight cut with very stiff rails."

From 2007: "I visited East High Billiards in the 60's when my friend Russ Maddox owned it. The 4x8 tables they had there were the over sized Sport Kings (46" by 92" playing surface) with approx. four and five/eighths inch pockets. These were very popular tables in Midwestern poolrooms in that era. ... I played on these tables quite a bit growing up, and they were great pool tables. The pockets were straight cut and "stiff", and you had to hit them cleanly or the ball would not drop. The slates were not shallow either. George Rood played in that same club quite a bit and was a terrific 14.1 player. I doubt he ever ran over 200 balls there. He and Russ were friends and George often remarked that he thought Mosconi's run of 526 was amazing."
Thanks - I appreciate the info. Sounds like it was an oversized 8-footer with slightly under 5-inch corners and fairly deep shelves - certainly not as easy a table as I'd heard from someone else.
  
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05-16-2018, 09:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Applying some probability and statistics to the high run list says that John is 25% to run 100 or more from each start under the conditions he had. He shoots at a clip of 220 balls per hour. If that is a complete description of the situation -- ignoring fatigue, anxiety above 450, etc. -- then John is expected to run 527 in about 527 hours of play. (Well, I got about 480, but 527 kind of fits and is easier to remember.) He had about 140 hours total in his marathon.

By "expected" I mean more than 50% chance. It might only take 10 hours or it might take 2000. In 140 hours the expectation is for one or two runs over 400 and the actual number was zero.
Bob, just curious - any updates on John's recent high run attempts, or is he taking a break for now? - Thanks
  
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05-16-2018, 09:26 AM

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Bob, just curious - any updates on John's recent high run attempts, or is he taking a break for now? - Thanks
He posted that he was exhausted from playing for 18 days solid. I have not heard of any new try.


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05-16-2018, 10:25 AM

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He posted that he was exhausted from playing for 18 days solid. I have not heard of any new try.
Yeah, I guess that's one reason why Willie's 526 has held for 64+ years! All records are made to be broken though, and eventually someone will break that one.
  
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05-16-2018, 10:28 AM

It would have been more interesting to see the dates (1-18) and (run count).

I would expect him to get it higher and higher with the highest run towards then end of the 18th day.

JMO

Ken


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05-16-2018, 10:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Ken_4fun View Post
It would have been more interesting to see the dates (1-18) and (run count).

I would expect him to get it higher and higher with the highest run towards then end of the 18th day.

JMO

Ken
I'm guessing what you are assuming that his 200+ runs gradually increased over the 18 days is not likely the case - otherwise he would have had the incentive to keep at it. My guess is likely the higher runs peaked towards the middle of this 18 day stretch, then dropped off significantly towards the end - which is why he decided/figured he needed to take a break. Maybe Bob can enlightened us on this question.
  
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05-16-2018, 11:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Ken_4fun View Post
It would have been more interesting to see the dates (1-18) and (run count).

I would expect him to get it higher and higher with the highest run towards then end of the 18th day.

JMO

Ken
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I'm guessing what you are assuming that his 200+ runs gradually increased over the 18 days is not likely the case - otherwise he would have had the incentive to keep at it. My guess is likely the higher runs peaked towards the middle of this 18 day stretch, then dropped off significantly towards the end - which is why he decided/figured he needed to take a break. Maybe Bob can enlightened us on this question.
I asked about this last month back in post #12. Bob probably missed it then and I forgot to follow up. But I'm still curious.
  
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05-16-2018, 11:23 AM

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I asked about this last month back in post #12. Bob probably missed it then and I forgot to follow up. But I'm still curious.
John posted on FacePlant. I no longer can go there. Perhaps someone else would like to check it out.

https://www.facebook.com/mr400.john.schmidt


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05-16-2018, 03:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Ken_4fun View Post
It would have been more interesting to see the dates (1-18) and (run count).

I would expect him to get it higher and higher with the highest run towards then end of the 18th day.

JMO

Ken

I think your concentration gets worn out.

I know that even when I'm just on my measly 50-100 ball run quests, it's a back-breaker when a run ends, regardless of whether it was a miss, blown position, no shot, or sheer bad luck. It's hard to start over again and again, and I think when you sequentially chase runs you lose your concentration during early racks, which ends up meaning fewer later racks.

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05-17-2018, 09:08 AM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Wikipedia says they were 5". But then it says "citation needed" so that may not be reliable.

Jay Helfert has written about this several times.

From 2011: "I was in that poolroom a couple of times in the 60's and even played on the same table. It was a typical over-sized 4x8 that was popular in Midwestern poolrooms back then. Not the toughest table in the world, but not the easiest either. Those old boxes had straight cut pockets with fairly deep shelves. I'm guessing the pocket openings were just under 5". You had to hit the pockets though or the ball wasn't going in. Shooting down the rail was probably easier than most tourney tables in use today, but out on the table you had to make a clean shot."

From 2009: "It was what we called an "over sized" eight footer (46"x92" playing surface). It just seemed like a normal table to me back then. What did I know? Based on the Sport Kings that were so popular in Midwestern poolrooms at that time, I would guess the pocket openings at about 4.75". But remember the slate was fairly deep on those old tables and the pocket opening were straight cut with very stiff rails."

From 2007: "I visited East High Billiards in the 60's when my friend Russ Maddox owned it. The 4x8 tables they had there were the over sized Sport Kings (46" by 92" playing surface) with approx. four and five/eighths inch pockets. These were very popular tables in Midwestern poolrooms in that era. ... I played on these tables quite a bit growing up, and they were great pool tables. The pockets were straight cut and "stiff", and you had to hit them cleanly or the ball would not drop. The slates were not shallow either. George Rood played in that same club quite a bit and was a terrific 14.1 player. I doubt he ever ran over 200 balls there. He and Russ were friends and George often remarked that he thought Mosconi's run of 526 was amazing."
Those are tough tables. The rec center near where I lived in St Louis had 2 of them and they were free to play on if you had an id. Those tables took an untold amount of abuse from thousands of kids who used them as playground equipment and they held up well.
  
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