Stan shuffet and cte pro one

Neil said:

:banghead::banghead::thud::thud:

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:scratchhead:

You don't understand. It does not matter where your vision center is focused. There is a specific angle created between your bridge hand and the center of the CB at its core. The angle gets smaller as your bridge distance increases and larger as it increases. The only way to create a consistent pivot angle with different bridge distances is to place your bridge hand in a different place each time, proportional to the changing distance between it and the CB.

I'm not saying what you are doing will not work. I am saying what you are doing is making it work.

BC21 said:

:scratchhead:

You don't understand. It does not matter where your vision center is focused. There is a specific angle created between your bridge hand and the center of the CB at its core. The angle gets smaller as your bridge distance increases and larger as it increases. The only way to create a consistent pivot angle with different bridge distances is to place your bridge hand in a different place each time, proportional to the changing distance between it and the CB.

I'm not saying what you are doing will not work. I am saying what you are doing is making it work.

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Think what you want. Doesn't make it reality though.

Neil said:

Think what you want. Doesn't make it reality though.

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Lol. Geometry is reality. Math doesn't rely on perception. It doesn't change simply because you look at it from a different angle.

BC21 said:

Lol. Geometry is reality. Math doesn't rely on perception. It doesn't change simply because you look at it from a different angle.

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Brian, you are what we call unteachable. You are so stuck on how you think it works (which it obviously doesn't even work for you) that you are deaf to what others are actually saying.

I give up. I have too much on my plate right now to be bothering trying to help someone that doesn't want help. Have fun in your journey to nowhere land.

Neil said:

Brian, you are what we call unteachable. You are so stuck on how you think it works (which it obviously doesn't even work for you) that you are deaf to what others are actually saying.

I give up. I have too much on my plate right now to be bothering trying to help someone that doesn't want help. Have fun in your journey to nowhere land.

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But it does work for me. You are so quick to dismiss things that you don't agree with because you assume I am trying to prove you are wrong. I have embraced and learned from things in which I initially disagreed. Once again, I'm not saying it doesn't work as you show, I'm simply saying you are making it work by moving your entire body, not just the bridge hand. We were on two different pages.

Here is a sketch of what you are doing in your pivot video without realizing what is happening. Or you do realize it but just didn't explain it. There is only one line that will put the center of the CB at center ghostball. I labeled it "aim line". In order for your cue stick to be on this line, your pivot/bridge hand must be on this line also. Notice how the line widens away from your CCB to center OB vision line. This means you must place your bridge hand at varying distances from your vision line as you change the bridge distance from the CB. The reason it works for you is because you are moving your entire body away from the CB, which changes your visual perspective of that edge to edge line, and the result is that your bridge hand position (relative to your center vision line) automatically changes proportionally with your changing visual perspective.

I'm sure you know that standing in one place and varying your bridge distance, regardless of where your vision center is focused, results in varying pivot angles. It has little to do with looking straight ahead and pivoting from an offset, and everything to do with that changing perception as you move your body/head closer or farther from the CB.



Standing in one place, one distance from CB, you'd get these varying pre-pivot lines as you move your bridge hand in or out from the CB. But moving your body/head farther or closer to the CB can make these pre-pivot lines hit edge to edge in your peripheral vision.

BC21 said:

I couldn't judge the true angle without using my book. I just recognize shots and shoot them in. Don't care about exact angles.

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Yes, but Stan says angles are too hard to see or judge correctly, something like that because I don't want to misquote the man and I respect him and like the guy, so it's not about him or you per say. My question was basically, "is" he correct?

This leads me to another annoying question/phenomenon or perhaps it's just specific to me, but some angles, depending on layout and location, are much more difficult to see, even though it's the same angle, but in a different table location, it's easier to see.

The only thing I can conclude, is a mix of corner and or rail lines, combined with the table itself, forcing the dominant eye away or within the shot angle itself.

I can set up shots for right handers, left eye dominant, tell them to use inside English, which should act as a "cutter".......and they will miss it thick awl summ'uh 16, awl summ'uh 16, play'n dirty not clean, stand'n out in front of fo' seasons look'n like a damn football team manggg.

Neil said:

Brian, you are what we call unteachable. You are so stuck on how you think it works (which it obviously doesn't even work for you) that you are deaf to what others are actually saying.

I give up. I have too much on my plate right now to be bothering trying to help someone that doesn't want help. Have fun in your journey to nowhere land.

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Neil, if anything, brian is proving that it's voodoo and this fly's in the face of objectivety don't you think?

But I say, despite that, that Stan's possible point is it's "explainable" but Dan, may god rest his banned soul, states that Stan is stating objectivety to the math's nat ass..... I think.

I'm tired, I think my own pool journey with all my pure voodoo'id'ness is going to kill me. Oh well, back to the tables. Got.....to send.........Or..Or.....COLLO......home BROKE......gasp......must......get............to THE TABLES.

EEEEEEEEEEEEE.....doctor we're losing him, CLEAR!!! THU'THUMP......eeee....eeee ............EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

paultex said:

Yes, but Stan says angles are too hard to see or judge correctly, something like that because I don't want to misquote the man and I respect him and like the guy, so it's not about him or you per say. My question was basically, "is" he correct?

This leads me to another annoying question/phenomenon or perhaps it's just specific to me, but some angles, depending on layout and location, are much more difficult to see, even though it's the same angle, but in a different table location, it's easier to see.

The only thing I can conclude, is a mix of corner and or rail lines, combined with the table itself, forcing the dominant eye away or within the shot angle itself.

I can set up shots for right handers, left eye dominant, tell them to use inside English, which should act as a "cutter".......and they will miss it thick awl summ'uh 16, awl summ'uh 16, play'n dirty not clean, stand'n out in front of fo' seasons look'n like a damn football team manggg.

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I don't think angles are too hard to judge or see. Sure, calling the exact angle is too tough, but even Stan can look at a shot, a certain CCB line, and immediately know if the shot is going to hit a couple of degrees short or wide of the pocket. This means he recognizes the incorrect angle for the shot, which also means he is capable of recognizing the correct angle for the shot. But stating the exact angle is a much different task than recognizing a familiar angle.

Eventually, if your aiming method focuses on the OB and the shot angle, your brain recognizes cb/ob relationships relating to the pocket, and you don't have to think about where to aim. You just do it. CTE users program their brains to recognize exactly which perception and which pivot or sweep to use. Fractional aimers program their brains to recall aim points associated with recognized shot angles. The actual value of the angles in degrees is not a necessity.

Check this out for same angle shots in odd table positions....https://youtu.be/L1P-1YM-yVQ

paultex said:

Neil, if anything, brian is proving that it's voodoo and this fly's in the face of objectivety don't you think?

..........

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I'm not proving it's voodoo. If anything, the math proves how and why it works on a great number of shots, and how or why it doesn't work on other shots. I know I'm late reaching thus assessment, as Dr Dave probably figured as much a few years ago. None of this matters to those who have been working CTE for a few years. But it might help those who are still struggling to make it work consistently.:smile:!

BC21 said:

I'm not proving it's voodoo. If anything, the math proves how and why it works on a great number of shots, and how or why it doesn't work on other shots. I know I'm late reaching thus assessment, as Dr Dave probably figured as much a few years ago. None of this matters to those who have been working CTE for a few years. But it might help those who are still struggling to make it work consistently.:smile:!

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Well, I meant in reference to the secret that is going to be revealed, ultimately it could still be voodoo. Hell, I don't know, this whole pool thing is 100% objective in scientific terms, where it's all explainable but it's just transmitting all the variables to the human side that's the problem. So, its all voodoo in my opinion.

I've missed ball in hand and so has you and everyone else at least once, if not dozens and dozens of times. Easy shots. It's voodoo.

Thanks for that link video. Ima watch it right now.

paultex said:

Well, I meant in reference to the secret that is going to be revealed, ultimately it could still be voodoo. Hell, I don't know, this whole pool thing is 100% objective in scientific terms, where it's all explainable but it's just transmitting all the variables to the human side that's the problem. So, its all voodoo in my opinion.

I've missed ball in hand and so has you and everyone else at least once, if not dozens and dozens of times. Easy shots. It's voodoo.

Thanks for that link video. Ima watch it right now.

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I can't disagree.....it's all voodoo sometimes. You are 100% correct.!

paultex said:

Well, I meant in reference to the secret that is going to be revealed, ultimately it could still be voodoo. Hell, I don't know, this whole pool thing is 100% objective in scientific terms, where it's all explainable but it's just transmitting all the variables to the human side that's the problem. So, its all voodoo in my opinion.
I've missed ball in hand and so has you and everyone else at least once, if not dozens and dozens of times. Easy shots. It's voodoo.
Thanks for that link video. Ima watch it right now.

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Come on man....how could you possibly miss with ball in hand..? (I've failed to get out with ball in hand, yes.) I even saw Alex the Lion have ball in hand on the 8 and dogged his shape on the 9 and missed it a foot. I still think he was doing business but that's another topic, etc. etc.
I have never missed an open makeable shot with ball in hand in literally thousands and thousands of hours and never will....and neither will you. If they made me be behind the line (for pool) or inside the D (for snooker) then of course I have. Especially like in the old days of playing 9-Ball when you had to make the spot shot...but otherwise under conditions where you get to put the cueball anywhere? Noo wayyyy.
Now......on to something reality based:
In a previous post you and I were bantering back and forth some about how important placement of the feet are in alignment. I didn't think it mattered all that much...as long as the dominant eye was running the show and the CTE was in gear.
Well, you were right...and it came home to roost with me.
Yesterday I started overcutting long shots bad, to the left..really bad too. Cost me some money and I DO NOT like that.
I knew it had to be an alignment issue because nothing had changed in my play.....I thought. Ha!
I happened to remember what you and I were arguing about and I looked down at my left foot and it was not in its usual position. Off by maybe 9-10 inches, something like that. A small amount...but fatal.
I corrected it back into its usual location. You guessed it.......end of problem.
I'll give you that one, my friend. Thanks for bringing it up.
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:

Low500 said:

Come on man....how could you possibly miss with ball in hand..? (I've failed to get out with ball in hand, yes.) I even saw Alex the Lion have ball in hand on the 8 and dogged his shape on the 9 and missed it a foot. I still think he was doing business but that's another topic, etc. etc.
I have never missed an open makeable shot with ball in hand in literally thousands and thousands of hours and never will....and neither will you. If they made me be behind the line (for pool) or inside the D (for snooker) then of course I have. Especially like in the old days of playing 9-Ball when you had to make the spot shot...but otherwise under conditions where you get to put the cueball anywhere? Noo wayyyy.
Now......on to something reality based:
In a previous post you and I were bantering back and forth some about how important placement of the feet are in alignment. I didn't think it mattered all that much...as long as the dominant eye was running the show and the CTE was in gear.
Well, you were right...and it came home to roost with me.
Yesterday I started overcutting long shots bad, to the left..really bad too. Cost me some money and I DO NOT like that.
I knew it had to be an alignment issue because nothing had changed in my play.....I thought. Ha!
I happened to remember what you and I were arguing about and I looked down at my left foot and it was not in its usual position. Off by maybe 9-10 inches, something like that. A small amount...but fatal.
I corrected it back into its usual location. You guessed it.......end of problem.
I'll give you that one, my friend. Thanks for bringing it up.
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:

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Ok, so I am curious, you are left eye dominant and right handed, yes?

If so, you were 9-10" to the right of the shot line with your right foot, correct?

If so, when under pressure or "trying to hard" not to miss, the dominant left eye tractor beam pulls you into what feels comfortable to offset the pressure or whatever it is that is compromising your better judgement, rather than what it takes to execute the shot and the physical mechanism of it all is what really gets it done, because the mind can only do so much.

I would rather shoot blindfolded and be mechanically sound before letting my eyes take over my mechanics.

I've also noticed that when you don't stay down on a shot, its due to what I call "crowded on the shot" and when you pull the trigger, an offset of some sort MUST occur in the form of a physical compensatory motion, being a twist stroke or "body English", where you lift or shift or jump your head or whole body to get out of your own way because you are "crowded".

Right side of the shotline for a left eye right hander is DEATH, unless you basically tuck your delivery system underneath your girth or rather, right side side of your midsection and hip or what I call, shooting from your right side hip pocket.

Tony chohan is a perfect example of the correct offset for that.

Observe the difference in the two styles, Tony is a big guy obviously but the stroke hand is more hidden underneath his right side and I can name others with the same style and they too stand more on the right side or closer to the shot line.

If your right foot is on the right side of shot line and you look back and your forearm is not hanging downward and angled "right" away from your hip, this is absolute death and the verge of a miscue waiting to happen as well if you aren't at least bridging to the right side of the cueball, similar to something shane van boening does, you might as well go sit down and give ball in hand away and sit down because its awwwwl ov'uh play'uh. I see's a miss in yo future mang.

Enjoy.

paultex said:

Ok, so I am curious, you are left eye dominant and right handed, yes?

If so, you were 9-10" to the right of the shot line with your right foot, correct?

If so, when under pressure or "trying to hard" not to miss, the dominant left eye tractor beam pulls you into what feels comfortable to offset the pressure or whatever it is that is compromising your better judgement, rather than what it takes to execute the shot and the physical mechanism of it all is what really gets it done, because the mind can only do so much.
I would rather shoot blindfolded and be mechanically sound before letting my eyes take over my mechanics.
I've also noticed that when you don't stay down on a shot, its due to what I call "crowded on the shot" and when you pull the trigger, an offset of some sort MUST occur in the form of a physical compensatory motion, being a twist stroke or "body English", where you lift or shift or jump your head or whole body to get out of your own way because you are "crowded".
Right side of the shotline for a left eye right hander is DEATH, unless you basically tuck your delivery system underneath your girth or rather, right side side of your midsection and hip or what I call, shooting from your right side hip pocket.
Tony chohan is a perfect example of the correct offset for that.

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I am right handed shooter and right eye dominant.
I lined up for years in the old fashioned mosconi way...(Jimmy Reid refined it for me.....AFTER he busted me once. And I was getting 8-5 on the money on each game in 8 ball. He beat me like a drum.)
When I began the CTE journey, I quit the mosconi stuff and I began lining up on an offset like Shuffett teaches and then shifted (pivoted or whatever they call it) into the shot line.
Staying down was never an issue...I forced that into my playing when Reid analyzed it 30 years ago.
But I see now where if if one of those feet gets away from where it's supposed to be, things get weird. Again, thanks for bringing it up.

Mizerak told me, if you start missing, to FIRST go to slowing down the backstroke.
SECOND, tighten up the grip hand. (Strickland and Wiley and Billy Johnson all advocated this remedy. On the other hand, Tony Ellin said it was insane. I asked Lassiter about it once, but those old bandits wouldn't reveal a thing...in fact they'd lie, just to keep you "in your place".)
Mizerak continued.."If you keep missing, then there is nothing left but alignment...IF you know how to aim."
My game is back in gear again. Not big league quality, but good enough to rob anybody I can get in a trap. I don't make bad bets...it's my way or no way. That's all that matters to me.
Keep on truckin' :thumbup:

Low500 said:

I am right handed shooter and right eye dominant.
I lined up for years in the old fashioned mosconi way...(Jimmy Reid refined it for me.....AFTER he busted me once. And I was getting 8-5 on the money on each game in 8 ball. He beat me like a drum.)
When I began the CTE journey, I quit the mosconi stuff and I began lining up on an offset like Shuffett teaches and then shifted (pivoted or whatever they call it) into the shot line.
Staying down was never an issue...I forced that into my playing when Reid analyzed it 30 years ago.
But I see now where if if one of those feet gets away from where it's supposed to be, things get weird. Again, thanks for bringing it up.

Mizerak told me, if you start missing, to FIRST go to slowing down the backstroke.
SECOND, tighten up the grip hand. (Strickland and Wiley and Billy Johnson all advocated this remedy. On the other hand, Tony Ellin said it was insane. I asked Lassiter about it once, but those old bandits wouldn't reveal a thing...in fact they'd lie, just to keep you "in your place".)
Mizerak continued.."If you keep missing, then there is nothing left but alignment...IF you know how to aim."
My game is back in gear again. Not big league quality, but good enough to rob anybody I can get in a trap. I don't make bad bets...it's my way or no way. That's all that matters to me.
Keep on truckin' :thumbup:

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Can you elaborate on what Reid said to you about your stroke? Im just curious and I'm also interested on the feet.

hogie583 said:

Can you elaborate on what Reid said to you about your stroke? Im just curious and I'm also interested on the feet.

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Jimmy didn't say anything about my stroke. What he suggested was that I get out of that mosconi semi-upright stance which I learned as a kid by reading mosconi's little red book about pocket billiards. Where the shooter's back wasn't bent very much. He emphasized that mosconi was in a half table game with his straight pool and seldom was faced with long distance like in 9-Ball or 8-Ball. It was important to get down lower on the shots. That didn't come easy either....old habits and beliefs don't go away easily. Unlike the game of golf where there were always coaches and instructors around, back then there were few coaches (who could play for money without choking under pressure and knew what they were doing) for the game of pool. But Reid still advocated stepping into the shot from the 'port arms' position with the cue...unlike the top players of today who approach from an angle. (He was not very "sociable" until after he had won my money:wink
I don't know what the feet being out of kelter does because I don't spend time fooling around with the "why" when it comes to pool. All I care about is the "how". I'm just guessing that when one of them is not in the location that has caused consistency that it throws the alignment off somewhat and the result is undercutting ,overcutting , and putting unwanted spin on the cue ball instead of getting that pure solid hit.
:thumbup:

Low500 said:

Jimmy didn't say anything about my stroke. What he suggested was that I get out of that mosconi semi-upright stance which I learned as a kid by reading mosconi's little red book about pocket billiards. Where the shooter's back wasn't bent very much. He emphasized that mosconi was in a half table game with his straight pool and seldom was faced with long distance like in 9-Ball or 8-Ball. It was important to get down lower on the shots. That didn't come easy either....old habits and beliefs don't go away easily. Unlike the game of golf where there were always coaches and instructors around, back then there were few coaches (who could play for money without choking under pressure and knew what they were doing) for the game of pool. But Reid still advocated stepping into the shot from the 'port arms' position with the cue...unlike the top players of today who approach from an angle. (He was not very "sociable" until after he had won my money:wink
I don't know what the feet being out of kelter does because I don't spend time fooling around with the "why" when it comes to pool. All I care about is the "how". I'm just guessing that when one of them is not in the location that has caused consistency that it throws the alignment off somewhat and the result is undercutting ,overcutting , and putting unwanted spin on the cue ball instead of getting that pure solid hit.
:thumbup:

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Personally, I think all forms from upright to low on the cue has its advantages and I like to use them all but I must admit it's hard to remember when focused on a game or objective. I got so many alignments and you name it, I really have to take some time out now and catalog them on paper and start cooking up a preshot routine.

For me personally, and I think because the way im built, if my foot, especially the right one, is even a little off of required position, the hips shift or twist and then my right shoulder gets way off base and that is usually a disaster when trying to keep my shooting elbow down the line or out. My dead natural position that I got to fight constantly is elbow in like Orcollo and its necessary for some shots, but disaster for most.....but that's me.

I'm sure many if not all have this sort of problem where it starts from the feet and works its way up to some degree. Im well formed for golf but not pool really.

Another thing I've found is the mechanics change enough or dramatically so, as soon as your hip or stomach or leg makes contact with the table, especially when stretching out for a shot. That's why a snooker table is so tough if you are a "pool player"...... My opinion though.

Hey, I heard Mosconi whipped the shyte out of steve Davis playing snooker on a 5x10.....rumor goes. Have you heard that before?

paultex said:

Hey, I heard Mosconi whipped the shyte out of steve Davis playing snooker on a 5x10.....rumor goes. Have you heard that before?

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I doubt that game ever happened.
Mosconi, being the no-gamble nit he was, wasn't about to expose himself to the skills of that Brit sharpshooter.
Just my opinion.....
:thumbup:

paultex said:

...........

Hey, I heard Mosconi whipped the shyte out of steve Davis playing snooker on a 5x10.....rumor goes. Have you heard that before?

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Very doubtful, unless it happened when Davis was a kid. Willie was in his late 60's, past his prime, by the time Davis was dominating the snooker scene. You can watch clips of Willie playing in the 1980's.....it's obvious he no longer had the skills needed to beat a player like Davis, especially on a snooker table.