Why Are They Not Playing True 10-Ball Rules?

ChrisinNC said:

Seems like many of these recent 10-ball events in which the fields and top finishers are dominated by pro players, including the current Freezer's Icehouse 10-ball Challenge event, don't seem to be playing true 10-ball call shot call safety rules.

I thought that was how was 10-ball was supposed to be played. I'm seeing too many missed shots that end up with a lucky leave hooking the opponent. Isn't that the exact reason you'd want to play the call shot call safe rules, especially with pro level players?

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I would say the reason is, despite good intentions, 10 ball will never replace 9 ball.

All the best,
WW

ChrisinNC said:

Seems like many of these recent 10-ball events in which the fields and top finishers are dominated by pro players, including the current Freezer's Icehouse 10-ball Challenge event, don't seem to be playing true 10-ball call shot call safety rules.

I thought that was how was 10-ball was supposed to be played? I'm seeing too many missed shots that end up with a lucky leave hooking the opponent. Isn't that the exact reason you'd want to play the call shot call safe rules, especially with pro level players, so you have the option to pass the shot back to the player who just missed and got lucky?

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Why is call shot with the option true ten ball?

I played ten ball long ago....same rules as nine ball....roll out.
...then we started playing it Texas Express....same as nine ball.

Seems to me your “true version” is more like bar rules.

I think they went back to playing it that way so to not eliminate the 2-way shot.

Maniac

I think the WPA came up with that rule 5 or 10 years ago. I don't believe anyone really like it. All the 10 ball events I've seen locally and even at DCC were played by "luck" rules.

pt109 said:

Why is call shot with the option true ten ball?

I played ten ball long ago....same rules as nine ball....roll out.
...then we started playing it Texas Express....same as nine ball.

Seems to me your “true version” is more like bar rules.

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I agree.

I think the call shot, call safety is better left for gambling in private when both players agree to it but should be kept out of tournaments.

The two-way shot should always be an option in all pocket pool games.

Rake

I agree with Jeremy Jones point that the "Call Shot rule" is not good for the game, since it encourages more safety play and it partially takes away the 2-way shot...

Actually the "Call shot, call safe" is even worse.

I like slop 10-Ball. Without the money ball counting on the break though.

With the current WPA rule the 10-Ball dont count on an early nor late combination at all anyway, since the World Pool Association new rule states that the 10-Ball must go in last.

Both CH8Ball and Snooker, two games that pay better than pool both are slop rules, and they are doing great with the rule like that.

There isn't that much luck when the game is played on a high level anyway, and more times than not the player deserving gets the rolls.

What many don't understand is that not always a fluke goes to the more deserving player during a particular set, but sometimes it does not go to what it may seem was the most deserving player because of fear or insecurity or something wrong in someone's mental game.

The rules of 9-Ball from 30 years ago were just fine, all what the tournaments of today need to do is lengthen the races and tighten the pockets and if the tournaments take longer this way put a chess clock in every match, so that every player can use their own time as they please.

Most of the better players this is all they do anyway, who cares if the tournaments last a day or two more?

My opinion here




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10ball rules are only call ball and pocket. You dont have to call safe. This preserves 2 way shots.

Icon of Sin said:

10ball rules are only call ball and pocket. You dont have to call safe. This preserves 2 way shots.

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I agree here. Call pocket is fine. Call safe can turn into a duck-fest. There will always be some luck aspect in rotation games. If you want less/no luck play 1p or banks.

ChrisinNC said:

I enjoy the skill of playing 2-way shots as much as anyone - particularly on the last ball. It's just too bad when you see a player miss a shot they are fully trying to make and get shape on their next ball, and they get a lucky leave out of it, leaving their opponent hooked. In no way should shots like this be confused with a legit 2-way shot, and in my opinion should not be rewarded. I guess it's just one of the unfortunate aspects of current 9-ball and 10-ball rules which players have no choice but to accept that it's part of the game.

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Chris i see where you're comin from and what you say is why 2-shot pushout is such a great game. If someone calls a shot, misses and hooks you then you can roll-out. Incoming player can shoot or pass. I know this topic has been covered to DEATH but IMHO roll-out(9b or 10b) is the best way to play. The moves and strategies are endless in this format.

ChrisinNC said:

I enjoy the skill of playing 2-way shots as much as anyone - particularly on the last ball. It's just too bad when you see a player miss a shot they are fully trying to make and get shape on their next ball, and they get a lucky leave out of it, leaving their opponent hooked. It's really frustrating when your opponent does it on either a fairly easy shot that should never have been missed, or it's a hard enough shot that they should have chosen to play a safety on but didn't, and it still works out perfectly for them. In no way should shots like this be confused with a legit 2-way shot, and in my opinion should not be rewarded. I guess it's just one of the unfortunate aspects of current 9-ball and 10-ball rules which players have no choice but to accept that it's part of the game.

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taking a shot and missing it is part of the game too. Absurd to think someone should be able to walk up and say I don't like the leave so now you can get back up here and shoot. No accident this "rule" is seldom used.

Joe_Jaguar said:

taking a shot and missing it is part of the game too. Absurd to think someone should be able to walk up and say I don't like the leave so now you can get back up here and shoot. No accident this "rule" is seldom used.

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Totally agree. Just my $.02 here, nothing more.

The latest WPA rules allow two-way shots.
Also, the 2 and 3 are no longer placed in the lower corners of the rack.

9.8 Continuing Play
If the shooter legally pockets a called/nominated ball on a shot (except a push out, see 9.4
Second Shot of the Rack – Push Out), any additional balls pocketed remain pocketed (except
the ten ball; see 9.9 Spotting Balls), and he continues at the table for the next shot. If a player
nominates and legally pockets the ten ball prior to the ten ball being the last remaining ball, the
ten ball is re-spotted and the shooter continues, while pocketing the ten ball as a final ball at the
table, he wins the rack. If the shooter fails to pocket the called ball or fouls, play passes to the
other player, and if no foul was committed, the incoming player must play the cue ball from
the position left by the other player.

ChrisinNC said:

Seems like many of these recent 10-ball events in which the fields and top finishers are dominated by pro players, including the current Freezer's Icehouse 10-ball Challenge event, don't seem to be playing true 10-ball call shot call safety rules.

I thought that was how was 10-ball was supposed to be played? I'm seeing too many missed shots that end up with a lucky leave hooking the opponent. Isn't that the exact reason you'd want to play the call shot call safe rules, especially with pro level players, so you have the option to pass the shot back to the player who just missed and got lucky?

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I completely agree with you. I thought the same thing when I watched a tournament a few weeks ago. People are just playing nine ball with an extra ball.

I don't think people know the rules and just do what they want. Now the game is just another easy game like nine ball. After all, that is why people started playing ten ball.




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poolguy4u said:

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I completely agree with you. I thought the same thing when I watched a tournament a few weeks ago. People are just playing nine ball with an extra ball.

I don't think people know the rules and just do what they want. Now the game is just another easy game like nine ball. After all, that is why people started playing ten ball.




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ChrisinNC said:

Seems like many of these recent 10-ball events in which the fields and top finishers are dominated by pro players, including the current Freezer's Icehouse 10-ball Challenge event, don't seem to be playing true 10-ball call shot call safety rules.

I thought that was how was 10-ball was supposed to be played? I'm seeing too many missed shots that end up with a lucky leave hooking the opponent. Isn't that the exact reason you'd want to play the call shot call safe rules, especially with pro level players, so you have the option to pass the shot back to the player who just missed and got lucky?

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Are you familiar with something known in the world of pool as a 2 way shot?

This is only one guy's opinion, but I feel like if the rules do not specify "call shot-call safe" but simply "call-shot", then when a player missing leaves the incoming player accidently hooked/snookered, then the incoming player should have the right to use a jump cue (as much as I disagree with jump cues). I mean, luck is luck, but it's a shame the incoming player may lose the rack or even the match over something that the outgoing player never intended.

Now let me make it clear that I have always said that a player who "hooks" him/herself should never be able to pull out a jump cue and try to get out of the sh*thole they put themselves in. That said, I am not against jump cues if a player is accidently hooked by their opponent.


The rule that allows jumping with a full cue as many times as they want to is even better.

To me...at least give the victim of accidental misfortune some leeway in trying to get out of a bad situation.

Maniac (waiting for the anti-jump cue hellhounds to dog my a$$)

ChrisinNC said:

I've been playing for 50 years, I think I'm experienced enough to tell the difference between a legit 2-way shot and just getting plain lucky, even when it's a pro player shooting it. Do you?

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With call shot and call safe rules, both lucky and legit 2 way shots will not exist. Either you are playing the shot or the safe. The more skilled shot is when you are legitimately playing both. While there have been some lucky misses in this event, there have also been some very well executed 2 way shots as well.