Dymondwood factory fire: Thoughts?

dogginda9 · Sep 8, 2014

I was wondering, now that Dymondwood producer Rutland Plywood has burned down, where will Diamond Billiards turn for their pool table wood for their commercial tables? Will they try a different material all together or is there someone else out there who produces something similar to Dymondwood? Just curious if anyone had heard anything on the subject.

The Renfro · Sep 8, 2014

Their equipment was not something anyone else is going to just have laying around or will be able to come up with without a pretty hefty capital investment..... Add to that that noone else will have the formulas and processes and I would say there may be trouble in River City... I can and have made small samples that are super close with my equipment but we are talking handle sections, pen blanks and prongs... Full sheets? Hahah ummm yeah right and don't ask me to match their colors...

JB Cases · Sep 8, 2014

dogginda9 said:
I was wondering, now that Dymondwood producer Rutland Plywood has burned down, where will Diamond Billiards turn for their pool table wood for their commercial tables? Will they try a different material all together or is there someone else out there who produces something similar to Dymondwood? Just curious if anyone had heard anything on the subject.

Seems like there are not many alternatives to Dymondwood that makers like. That would sound like a big incentive to rebuild. Short term it looks pretty dire for any business that is highly dependent on Dymondwood.

Mr. Bond · Sep 8, 2014

Very sad about the fire.
At this point I don't think the decision has been made to rebuild, or if they will license the product to another manufacturer. Hopefully Diamond has sufficient stock on hand to keep producing for the time being.

Dymalux and Spectraply are out there, ( as well as Trex) but they don't appear to be an exact replacement for Dymondwood. It's a bad situation when there is only one supplier for a given material...and they go under.

I hope for everyone's sake that something can be done quickly, because presently we're looking at potentially huge wait times, price increases, or worse yet, a dip in quality..

JoeyA · Sep 8, 2014

There are other "similar" products out there but testing will have to be done and that is in the works.

JoeyA

macguy · Sep 9, 2014

JoeyA said:
There are other "similar" products out there but testing will have to be done and that is in the works.

JoeyA

Isn't Dymondwood just the trade name they use for their resin impregnated wood? I am sure there is another manufacture around doing the same thing.

JB Cases · Sep 9, 2014

macguy said:
Isn't Dymondwood just the trade name they use for their resin impregnated wood? I am sure there is another manufacture around doing the same thing.

Yes it is the brand name but not all resin filled wood is the same. From a quick google search it seems as if there isn't an alternative that makers (knife and bow) feel is equal to Dymondwood.

The Renfro · Sep 9, 2014

JB Cases said:
Seems like there are not many alternatives to Dymondwood that makers like. That would sound like a big incentive to rebuild. Short term it looks pretty dire for any business that is highly dependent on Dymondwood.

Since Greg only uses the Red and Black stained diamond wood it's not out of the realm of possibility that they can do it themselves or have someone do those for them... Those colors and pieces would be easier to replicate than some of their proprietary color blends..Stain and stabilize....

Big thing will be the volume for anyone that takes it on.. I don't think they buy 1 table's worth at a time.....

I haven't looked closely at a cross section of the diamond rails to know how thick the diamond wood laminate is but that will be the cost driver.... The epoxy impregnation will be a quick set epoxy so as not to diturb the stain already in the wood... You can do it at 1 atmosphere if the laminate is not super thick but you are still talking a large volume chamber so the pump will start at maybe 5k... The chamber 15-20k.. IF the laminate is thick you can double those numbers as you will need to pull more than an atmosphere to get enough penetration in 30 minutes.....

ON the cheap you could polybag vac it if it's thin stuff but you can't miss the pot time or you just ruined it... Well you didn't ruin it but you have finish work that would not have been required that will be spensive from a labor standpoint......

Chris

RiverCity · Sep 9, 2014

They built tables out of regular woods for years before the dymondwood. Nothing says they cant just go back to oak, or maple etc permanently or even just in the interim until a rebuild or new supplier comes up.
Oh wait....... No youre right...... Lets panic...... :thumbup:
Chuck

buckshotshoey · Sep 9, 2014

Chuck Fields said:
They built tables out of regular woods for years before the dymondwood. Nothing says they cant just go back to oak, or maple etc permanently or even just in the interim until a rebuild or new supplier comes up.
Oh wait....... No youre right...... Lets panic...... :thumbup:
Chuck

That is true. Problem is supplies of good wood. Expect the price of a Diamond table to go up substantially. Used ones should hold much better value though.

Cuebuddy · Sep 9, 2014

These are pics of my rails.

The Renfro said:
Since Greg only uses the Red and Black stained diamond wood it's not out of the realm of possibility that they can do it themselves or have someone do those for them... Those colors and pieces would be easier to replicate than some of their proprietary color blends..Stain and stabilize....

Big thing will be the volume for anyone that takes it on.. I don't think they buy 1 table's worth at a time.....

I haven't looked closely at a cross section of the diamond rails to know how thick the diamond wood laminate is but that will be the cost driver.... The epoxy impregnation will be a quick set epoxy so as not to diturb the stain already in the wood... You can do it at 1 atmosphere if the laminate is not super thick but you are still talking a large volume chamber so the pump will start at maybe 5k... The chamber 15-20k.. IF the laminate is thick you can double those numbers as you will need to pull more than an atmosphere to get enough penetration in 30 minutes.....

ON the cheap you could polybag vac it if it's thin stuff but you can't miss the pot time or you just ruined it... Well you didn't ruin it but you have finish work that would not have been required that will be spensive from a labor standpoint......

Chris

ShootingArts · Sep 9, 2014

more concerned about structural value than looks

Cuebuddy said:
These are pics of my rails.

Just happened to quote you but then you may be the guy with the answer to a couple questions.

I'm more concerned with structural qualities, if I recall correctly Diamond builds their structural pieces out of plywood from Rutland. Best I recall Rutland was laying up their laminates on different biases than just the conventional ninety degrees that typical plywood uses for some purposes. Might be pretty easy for someone else to laminate three pieces of fairly conventional plywood together with a very large press or vacuum equipment to get a similar effect but I don't know. High grade plywood is expensive and not really that high of a grade according to my purchases in the last few years.

I suspect that Diamond will meet all challenges even if rails have to be a bit different for awhile. The issue I am more concerned with is structural integrity. I am working from distant memory though, been years since I saw how they were making tables and I may have forgotten or be mistaken about the Rutland plywood structural pieces.

One person's disaster is another's opportunity. May be an all new and better material that comes into use now.

Hu

branpureza · Sep 9, 2014

Last I heard from someone who orders from them is that they are definitely rebuilding but won't be up and running for another year or so.

Hopefully Diamond has enough inventory and/or resources to keep up with demand in the meantime.

Mr. Bond · Sep 9, 2014

ShootingArts said:
Just happened to quote you but then you may be the guy with the answer to a couple questions.

I'm more concerned with structural qualities, if I recall correctly Diamond builds their structural pieces out of plywood from Rutland. Best I recall Rutland was laying up their laminates on different biases than just the conventional ninety degrees that typical plywood uses for some purposes. Might be pretty easy for someone else to laminate three pieces of fairly conventional plywood together with a very large press or vacuum equipment to get a similar effect but I don't know.

Hu

Dymondwood is far different than a typical piece of plywood. (The specs are on their site) Made from birch primarily and all grains run the same direction. Up to 14 plys per half inch of thickness. Color impregnated all the way thru, no stain needed and can be polished as is. Good stuff, specifically when it comes to dimensional stability, which is the biggest weakness of most wood.

Banks · Sep 9, 2014

Does this mean it'll take me 6 months to get a quote instead of 3?

measureman · Sep 9, 2014

The Chinese will have a knock off in no time.
they are very good at that.

JB Cases · Sep 9, 2014

measureman said:
The Chinese will have a knock off in no time.
they are very good at that.

This brand has been on the market for a long time so I guess if the Chinese could have made a knockoff of it they would have by now.

Seems like a sad story to me. A single factory that innovated creating the premier product in a certain class and they ended up being the only good supplier for a lot of folks.

I didn't even know Dymondwood was plywood. I thought it was solid hardwoods that had been resin filled. Funny that you can be around a material for so long and not really know what it is. I think I might have owned one Dymondwood cue back in the 90s but other than that never had anything to do with it personally. Just always knew it was around and the properties of Diamond's table rails being practically impervious to dings.

I think, on reflection, that also confused it with Wild Wood, which IIRC is solid hardwood that is also resin filled. Is that right?

branpureza · Sep 9, 2014

measureman said:
The Chinese will have a knock off in no time.
they are very good at that.

Why did you feel a need to bring race into the conversation?

macguy · Sep 9, 2014

JB Cases said:
This brand has been on the market for a long time so I guess if the Chinese could have made a knockoff of it they would have by now.

Seems like a sad story to me. A single factory that innovated creating the premier product in a certain class and they ended up being the only good supplier for a lot of folks.

I didn't even know Dymondwood was plywood. I thought it was solid hardwoods that had been resin filled. Funny that you can be around a material for so long and not really know what it is. I think I might have owned one Dymondwood cue back in the 90s but other than that never had anything to do with it personally. Just always knew it was around and the properties of Diamond's table rails being practically impervious to dings.

I think, on reflection, that also confused it with Wild Wood, which IIRC is solid hardwood that is also resin filled. Is that right?

The process is referred as stabilizing is not brain surgery. This company has been doing it for a long time
http://www.stabilizedwood.com/

Johnnyt · Sep 9, 2014

I can see the price of the tables having the last of this kind of wood in stock raised because of this thread. Johnnyt

Dymondwood factory fire: Thoughts?

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