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07-10-2018, 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
"and try both til either "looks right" will drive you bat crazy with this method of aiming.
I had to unlearn almost 70 years of "mosconi fractions which look right" when I began the CTE journey.....it was totally absurd. Instead of getting better....I got worse. And worse...and worse...to the point I thought the whole idea was nuts.
But I kept watching Stan Shuffett and Landon Shuffett and Steve Moore and Brandon Shuff making those shots over and over and over and I kept saying to myself......."I've got great eyes, a pretty good stroke, lots of miles on a pool table, I've spent good money on the DVD's, and by golly if they can do it then I can learn to do it too". That kept me sustained.
It is a weird method of aiming at first. Then, slowly, almost by osmosis it becomes something that is so natural you think to yourself....."man...this is the cheese on a biscuit...where has it been all my life?"
All I know to tell you is to plod along with blind faith and do what Stan says do and it will some day fall into place. Now when that "some day" is for you, pardner I cannot say...but when it finally clicks, your opposition is going to be flabbergasted!!!!
TELL THEM NOTHING....KEEP IT TO YOURSELF AND WIN THEIR MONEY.
Ignore the naysayers...they contribute nothing to your growth. Like ZERO!
You're in luck because Stan's Truth Series (free on the youtube) and the release of his written epistle is right around the corner....a matter of weeks.
That will be glorious for ALL of us.
As I've stated...I am a student just like you...not an instructor. I'm just posting this as an encouragement thing for you.
Happy Trails
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Jucas
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07-10-2018, 07:56 AM

[QUOTE=Low500;6182249][QUOTE=Jucas;6182203]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Jucas, this also is straight from Stan at the holy temple of masterful instruction in Kentucky===>"A right hand player typically prefers 30 outsides for right cuts but 15 insides for left cuts. You can back up the cueball a diamond along the same rail and it is still the same shot."
Go thou and crush the enemy! Burn their fields, imprison their oxen, and proclaim to all nations that the temple shall not be violated by the rage of the heathen.

Happy Trails to you.
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Thanks for that. Ill set up these and give it a go.
  
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Jucas
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07-10-2018, 08:11 AM

Well, I do not know all of the claims of CTE, and I do not really care. As long as the balls go in the hole. I had a fair bit of success using shishkebob for aiming, which was my default shooting technique. So I thought I would try CTE.

It seems to me, that the reason an A-outside pockets both straight in shots and slight angles is a matter of alignment.

The balls are round after all, not flat discs, and if you are aligned with the edge and one of the reference points (a or b), it gives you a certain relative alignment.

You change the reference point, you change the alignment. It is a relative alignment, based on the perception of Center CB and Edge to reference point.

Because the balls are spheres, you are "rotating" (for lack of a better word) around the balls, and then you are essentially applying a 2-dimensional picture onto them. Then you thicken on thin the cut.

Again, I don't know how it exactly works, but that would be my guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
Herein lies the problem. You said you are not a math person, but you did describe Poolology pretty well so I know you understand it. When you draw that line through the balls, this connects the ball position on the table with the rails, and the math tells you where to aim to send the ob to the intersection of the rails, the corner pocket.

With CTE, there is no link between the balls on the table and the corner pocket. I know everyone says there is one but I'm sorry, just saying so doesn't cut it. Yes, I've used CTE enough to judge, learned originally from Hal himself, yada yada. Stan says it is a mystery as to how the balls are linked to the pocket as in Poolology. I believe it is not a mystery, that CTE is very explainable and I've provided video evidence in the past to make my points. I can't expand on that because I'm sure heads are already exploding.

Here's the question for you, a new user who doesn't seem to be wed to any particular method yet. IF A-outside works for straight in and also for a shallow (actually anything close to a half ball hit) what do you think is changing from one shot to the next in order to pocket the ob at the new and different angle vs the straight in shot?
  
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07-10-2018, 08:16 AM

Hey thanks for the response.

I don't find CTE to be particularly foreign actually.

I am new to pool, and have no qualms trying anything that pockets balls.

I had been using shishkebob for my main aiming method for the last 6th months with good, if not inconsistent success. Before that I tried ghost ball (of course), CJ Wiley TOI, and Hal Houles quarters system.

I'll keep trying CTE and see how it goes.

The question still remains though, how do you determine whether the shot is inside/outside? Experience? Some sort of visual reference?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
"and try both til either "looks right" will drive you bat crazy with this method of aiming.
I had to unlearn almost 70 years of "mosconi fractions which look right" when I began the CTE journey.....it was totally absurd. Instead of getting better....I got worse. And worse...and worse...to the point I thought the whole idea was nuts.
But I kept watching Stan Shuffett and Landon Shuffett and Steve Moore and Brandon Shuff making those shots over and over and over and I kept saying to myself......."I've got great eyes, a pretty good stroke, lots of miles on a pool table, I've spent good money on the DVD's, and by golly if they can do it then I can learn to do it too". That kept me sustained.
It is a weird method of aiming at first. Then, slowly, almost by osmosis it becomes something that is so natural you think to yourself....."man...this is the cheese on a biscuit...where has it been all my life?"
All I know to tell you is to plod along with blind faith and do what Stan says do and it will some day fall into place. Now when that "some day" is for you, pardner I cannot say...but when it finally clicks, your opposition is going to be flabbergasted!!!!
TELL THEM NOTHING....KEEP IT TO YOURSELF AND WIN THEIR MONEY.
Ignore the naysayers...they contribute nothing to your growth. Like ZERO!
You're in luck because Stan's Truth Series (free on the youtube) and the release of his written epistle is right around the corner....a matter of weeks.
That will be glorious for ALL of us.
As I've stated...I am a student just like you...not an instructor. I'm just posting this as an encouragement thing for you.
Happy Trails
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LAMas
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07-10-2018, 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucas View Post
Hey thanks for the response.

I don't find CTE to be particularly foreign actually.

I am new to pool, and have no qualms trying anything that pockets balls.

I had been using shishkebob for my main aiming method for the last 6th months with good, if not inconsistent success. Before that I tried ghost ball (of course), CJ Wiley TOI, and Hal Houles quarters system.

I'll keep trying CTE and see how it goes.

The question still remains though, how do you determine whether the shot is inside/outside? Experience? Some sort of visual reference?
The one that is pointing to where the Ghost Ball is.


dumluk
  
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BC21
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07-10-2018, 08:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucas View Post
Hey thanks for the response.

I don't find CTE to be particularly foreign actually.

I am new to pool, and have no qualms trying anything that pockets balls.

I had been using shishkebob for my main aiming method for the last 6th months with good, if not inconsistent success. Before that I tried ghost ball (of course), CJ Wiley TOI, and Hal Houles quarters system.

I'll keep trying CTE and see how it goes.

The question still remains though, how do you determine whether the shot is inside/outside? Experience? Some sort of visual reference?

You must at least have enough experience to be able to visualize where the OB will go if shot from the initial fixed ccb provided by the visuals/perception. That is how you know whether or not the perception needs thinned with an inside pivot/sweep or thickened with an outside pivot/sweep.


POOLOLOGY
Brian Crist

Last edited by BC21; 07-10-2018 at 09:42 PM.
  
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More encouragement for you..!
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Low500
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Thumbs up More encouragement for you..! - 07-11-2018, 07:40 AM

[QUOTE=Jucas;6182795][QUOTE=Low500;6182249]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucas View Post
Thanks for that. Ill set up these and give it a go.
When you use CTE Aiming, you're going to like not having to worry about whether or not you're aiming correctly, or if you've estimated a cut correctly...assuming you have a pretty good stroke and aren't drunk or something. I call it "one less bell to answer".
Here's an example.
Last night I went into the 'torture chamber' with the 4 1/4 inch pockets, cheap cloth, and dead ass rails, hot and sweat filled, no air conditioning, and dumb rap music from 2 radio stations blasting as an intentional distraction.....rehearsing for my weekly robbery of the local "Chump Change Tournament". This is the way I train.
COULDN'T MAKE A BALL!! Absolutely ridiculous....simple shots, long shots, pathetic. Rattling them in the pockets, getting a piece of the rails going in, etc.
Since I use the absolute perfect CTE method of aiming, there was no concern about proper thickness of hits or if I had judged the mosconi way correctly, or any of that stuff.
By looking in the big mirror next to the table, I noticed my feet were just slightly different in positioning than usual. A mere adjustment of 3-4 inches....and WHAM! Right back into perfect alignment and the balls began falling again.
Tested it again this morning...yep, everything back to normal.
The point being.....no tinkering was done with stroke, with grip, with aiming at the pocket, aiming at the object ball, with experimentation, whatever...and compounding the trouble.
Using CTE, it was not even necessary to consider those things as a part of the diagnosis.
Another reason you're going to LOVE IT.
Happy Trails to you...


Just call me "Harmless who can't make a Ball".....

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sacman
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07-11-2018, 08:17 AM

[QUOTE=Low500;6183425][QUOTE=Jucas;6182795]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
When you use CTE Aiming, you're going to like not having to worry about whether or not you're aiming correctly, or if you've estimated a cut correctly...assuming you have a pretty good stroke and aren't drunk or something. I call it "one less bell to answer".
Here's an example.
Last night I went into the 'torture chamber' with the 4 1/4 inch pockets, cheap cloth, and dead ass rails, hot and sweat filled, no air conditioning, and dumb rap music from 2 radio stations blasting as an intentional distraction.....rehearsing for my weekly robbery of the local "Chump Change Tournament". This is the way I train.
COULDN'T MAKE A BALL!! Absolutely ridiculous....simple shots, long shots, pathetic. Rattling them in the pockets, getting a piece of the rails going in, etc.
Since I use the absolute perfect CTE method of aiming, there was no concern about proper thickness of hits or if I had judged the mosconi way correctly, or any of that stuff.
By looking in the big mirror next to the table, I noticed my feet were just slightly different in positioning than usual. A mere adjustment of 3-4 inches....and WHAM! Right back into perfect alignment and the balls began falling again.
Tested it again this morning...yep, everything back to normal.
The point being.....no tinkering was done with stroke, with grip, with aiming at the pocket, aiming at the object ball, with experimentation, whatever...and compounding the trouble.
Using CTE, it was not even necessary to consider those things as a part of the diagnosis.
Another reason you're going to LOVE IT.
Happy Trails to you...
I personally feel there is too much emphasis on feet movement here and there. As Stan often says, "The eyes lead, and the body follows." - I never think of my feet movement. They move into a comfortable position that allows me to sweep into the right slant for the shot. I did discover - by going through the DVD example shots - why I was missing so many shots. - Since I'm left handed I was naturally bending over into a left visual sweep. When training with CTE I would over-sweep on the left and under-sweep on the right side. Those examples on the DVD and YT are essential in learning the system. I have a long ways to go to improve my accuracy in locating A/B and especially C & 1/8.

But regardless - I'm glad you found your problem and solved it.


Allen
  
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07-11-2018, 09:58 AM

Ok some more CTE table time.

I watched Stan's video on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdTBDO_6au4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdTBDO_6au4

The shots he set up, or at least approx, I can use the visuals and hit it.

When I setting up the spot shot, with the CB on the head-spot and the OB on the foot-spot both in the center of the table. There is no way I was getting close to the pocket using a 15 and inside. The hit was way too thick. The hit was consistent though, and the ball ended up striking the back rail in the same place.

Now, I am sure I am doing something wrong, but I am going to monkey around with it and see if I can get the balls to drop.






[QUOTE=Low500;6182179][QUOTE=Jucas;6182137]
I was, however, having a hell of a time shooting in a spot shot (CB on foot OB on head spots). I would get what I thought were the right visuals, drop down on the shot, and the inside pivot would way overcut the shot, the outside pivot way undercut.
Could anyone tell me what a proper visual and pivot should be for a spot shot?
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jucas, this is straight from Stan himself.
The spot shot is made with a 15 inside or a 30 outside.
Enjoy and keep on truckin'
  
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07-11-2018, 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
You must at least have enough experience to be able to visualize where the OB will go if shot from the initial fixed ccb provided by the visuals/perception. That is how you know whether or not the perception needs thinned with an inside pivot/sweep or thickened with an outside pivot/sweep.
Sure, I can imagine where the ball will go if I do a straight hit based on the reference points, relatively speaking. But aren't we getting into ghost ball/contact point territory then?

This seems to be a weakness that there isn't a visual "clue" that allows you to see whether or not the pivot is inside or outside.

If I am visualizing/imagining/guessing where the OB will go after a straight-hit (based on the reference points) then it's very possible I guess wrong (it might be more thin or thick), and therefore my pivot might be wrong too. Which seem to me to bring you back to "it looks right".

I guess I was hoping that there might be a visual reference-point/alignment that clues you into the pivot direction.
  
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07-11-2018, 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucas View Post
Sure, I can imagine where the ball will go if I do a straight hit based on the reference points, relatively speaking. But aren't we getting into ghost ball/contact point territory then?

This seems to be a weakness that there isn't a visual "clue" that allows you to see whether or not the pivot is inside or outside.

If I am visualizing/imagining/guessing where the OB will go after a straight-hit (based on the reference points) then it's very possible I guess wrong (it might be more thin or thick), and therefore my pivot might be wrong too. Which seem to me to bring you back to "it looks right".

I guess I was hoping that there might be a visual reference-point/alignment that clues you into the pivot direction.
Experience will teach you that. As you said ... "more table time".


Allen
  
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BC21
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07-11-2018, 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jucas View Post
Sure, I can imagine where the ball will go if I do a straight hit based on the reference points, relatively speaking. But aren't we getting into ghost ball/contact point territory then?

This seems to be a weakness that there isn't a visual "clue" that allows you to see whether or not the pivot is inside or outside.

If I am visualizing/imagining/guessing where the OB will go after a straight-hit (based on the reference points) then it's very possible I guess wrong (it might be more thin or thick), and therefore my pivot might be wrong too. Which seem to me to bring you back to "it looks right".

I guess I was hoping that there might be a visual reference-point/alignment that clues you into the pivot direction.
Stan has a couple of youtube clips where he explains how to determine pivot directions. There is no visual clue other than experience when getting that fixed pre-pivot/sweep cb perception.


POOLOLOGY
Brian Crist
  
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07-11-2018, 11:45 AM

---------------------------------------------------------


Allen

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07-11-2018, 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Stan has a couple of youtube clips where he explains how to determine pivot directions. There is no visual clue other than experience when getting that fixed pre-pivot/sweep cb perception.

UPDATED:

I received an update from Stan. He made it clear to me ... "I will show everyone how to objectively see perceptions, how to objectively determine thick or thin and how to objectively arrive at one tick for the shot line........" - Stan

I am going to sit patiently and offer no more advice or opinions on the subject until Stan's book & TS comes out. He has spent hours, days, & years putting YT videos out that one can study (I've watched every single video at least 4 times). It is fascinating and is proving to shift my focus from pocketing to cue ball control (speed, spin, sequence {for non-rotation games}).


Allen

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07-11-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Stan has a couple of youtube clips where he explains how to determine pivot directions. There is no visual clue other than experience when getting that fixed pre-pivot/sweep cb perception.
A B C and CTEL are visual clues. Don't need much experience for those.
  
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