The History of 9 Ball Pool???

9 Ball Fan

Darth Maximus
Silver Member
I read that the rules for 9 Ball weren't included in some rule books until 1967, because it was viewed as a hustler's game. Some people didn't want to encourage its popularity......

Well, that didn't work!!!

I think 9 Ball and 10 Ball are mighty fine games.

I like 8 Ball as well, and it was "the" game in all the bars when I was growing up.
 
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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Count me among those that didn't care for nine ball as it was played back then. You could push out after any position play error, and if you were the stronger player, you still came out ahead on the sequence more often than not. In my books, position play is sacred, and positional errors should be punished to the max. Yes, it was a bit of a hustler's game.

Nine ball wasn't very interesting until it was played Texas Express, in which defensive skills and billiard knowledge were at a greater premium, and shotmaking alone wouldn't get you to the finish line.

Played Texas Express, I love nine ball.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Count me among those that didn't care for nine ball as it was played back then. You could push out after any position play error, and if you were the stronger player, you still came out ahead on the sequence more often than not. In my books, position play is sacred, and positional errors should be punished to the max. Yes, it was a bit of a hustler's game.

Nine ball wasn't very interesting until it was played Texas Express, in which defensive skills and billiard knowledge were at a greater premium, and shotmaking alone wouldn't get you to the finish line.

Played Texas Express, I love nine ball.


Stu - You already know I respect *everything* you have to say and I do agree with nearly everything. That said, and not to drag up AGAIN the incessant arguments/discussions re: rollout-2 fouls- vs Tx Express but I could not POSSIBLY or more VEHEMENTLY disagree with everything you just said ( which I high-lighted above in red ) about the subject. And I am so tempted to qualify my remark just now but I will refrain, knowing it will be doing what I've just said I will not do.

There... now I feel much better.

Kind of.

In a way.

After a fashion... :grin-square:
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Stu - You already know I respect *everything* you have to say and I do agree with nearly everything. That said, and not to drag up AGAIN the incessant arguments/discussions re: rollout-2 fouls- vs Tx Express but I could not POSSIBLY or more VEHEMENTLY disagree with everything you just said ( which I high-lighted above in red ) about the subject. And I am so tempted to qualify my remark just now but I will refrain, knowing it will be doing what I've just said I will not do.

There... now I feel much better.

Kind of.

In a way.

After a fashion... :grin-square:

Hey, you like what you like, this is a matter of opinion. For me, though, I found nine ball dull until a few more defensive and billiard related elements were added int the mix. You are not alone in preferring it the old way, and I respect your opinion.
 

9 Ball Fan

Darth Maximus
Silver Member
My experience with 9 Ball, is the game as it was during the great US Open era of the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s; when it was a head to head shootout between great players. And as it still is to this day.
 
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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stu - You already know I respect *everything* you have to say and I do agree with nearly everything. That said, and not to drag up AGAIN the incessant arguments/discussions re: rollout-2 fouls- vs Tx Express but I could not POSSIBLY or more VEHEMENTLY disagree with everything you just said ( which I high-lighted above in red ) about the subject. And I am so tempted to qualify my remark just now but I will refrain, knowing it will be doing what I've just said I will not do.

There... now I feel much better.

Kind of.

In a way.

After a fashion... :grin-square:

I wholeheartedly agree. Most of the pros from that era would agree, also.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My experience with 9 Ball, is the game as it was during the great US Open era of the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s; when it was a head to head shootout between great players.
It's not clear. Are you referring to tournament play?
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Qwertyasdfgzxcv
 

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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
My experience with 9 Ball, is the game as it was during the great US Open era of the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s; when it was a head to head shootout between great players. And as it still is to this day.

Yup. Even in the early 1980's, tournaments were being played with Texas Express rules. In gambling sessions, Texas Express didn't come into vogue until the mid-1980's, by which time the majority of the action matches were played with Texas Express rules.

But some preferred the game as played before the nine ball era. The opening post in the thread references 1967 and how nine ball was perceived back then. That version was called "one shot shootout" and the better shotmaker had an even greater advantage back then. Luther Lassiter, the greatest ball pocketer ever in the eyes of some, was, to nobody's surprise, the king of that type of nine ball.

As you say, though, the game remains a great shootout between the most elite even today.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stu - You already know I respect *everything* you have to say and I do agree with nearly everything. That said, and not to drag up AGAIN the incessant arguments/discussions re: rollout-2 fouls- vs Tx Express but I could not POSSIBLY or more VEHEMENTLY disagree with everything you just said ( which I high-lighted above in red ) about the subject. And I am so tempted to qualify my remark just now but I will refrain, knowing it will be doing what I've just said I will not do.

There... now I feel much better.

Kind of.

In a way.

After a fashion... :grin-square:
Yep. ALL action 9ball was played by roll-out rules. TE came along to speed-up tournaments.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Yep. ALL action 9ball was played by roll-out rules. TE came along to speed-up tournaments.


And to obliterate 95% of all ( 9 ball ) action, as we knew it, nationwide... in less than 2 decades. And the only people who ( nearly all, at any rate ) ever seem to *want* to debate it are those who never played roll-out. And the majority of those weren't even *born* when the game of roll-out was ever played, wherever that was, may it rest in peace.


But, that's a statement that will be endlessly debated. And has been. Here. Ad Nauseum. And, again, I am really URGED by my internal urges to qualify with clear reasons why I feel this way. But, as I promised earlier. I'm zippiin it. :yeah:
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Hey, you like what you like, this is a matter of opinion. For me, though, I found nine ball dull until a few more defensive and billiard related elements were added int the mix. You are not alone in preferring it the old way, and I respect your opinion.

Well thank you, sir, I would not expect less from you, being the fair-minded person I know you to be. :)
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And to obliterate 95% of all action, as we knew it, nationwide... in less than 2 decades. And the only people who ( nearly all, at any rate ) ever seem to *want* to debate it are those who never played roll-out. And the majority of those weren't even *born* when the game of roll-out was ever played, wherever that was, may it rest in peace.


But, that's a statement that will be endlessly debated. And has been. Here. Ad Nauseum. And, again, I am really URGED by my internal urges to qualify with clear reasons why I feel this way. But, as I promised earlier. I'm zippiin it. :yeah:
It ain't worth the effort brother. Roll-out is deader than HulaHoop. Now its duck-n-hide safety play, jump shots and NO spot shots. And somehow TE made the game better. Whatever.
 

VonRhett

Friends Call Me "von"
Silver Member
TOTALLY AGREE WITH MICHAEL!!

TX Express has ruined 9-ball.

You don't think pushing out was defense?? You had to fully understand your strengths and weaknesses, AND those of your opponent.

That's what determined how and when you pushed out, NOT when you accidentally got out of line and had no shot.

If anything, TE is much more offensive (in every sense of the word). You either B&R, or you duck. That's it.

And the absolute WORST rule on the planet?? THREE FOUL RULE!!
Whoever thought that somebody should WIN without making a single ball, let alone the 9-ball, doesn't understand sports.

3 Foul Rule is like getting a Participation Trophy. With a Reach-Around.

</rant>

Suffice to say, I highly prefer and dearly miss 2-Shot Foul 9-Ball. THE game for purists.

-von
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TOTALLY AGREE WITH MICHAEL!!

TX Express has ruined 9-ball.

You don't think pushing out was defense?? You had to fully understand your strengths and weaknesses, AND those of your opponent.

That's what determined how and when you pushed out, NOT when you accidentally got out of line and had no shot.

If anything, TE is much more offensive (in every sense of the word). You either B&R, or you duck. That's it.

And the absolute WORST rule on the planet?? THREE FOUL RULE!!
Whoever thought that somebody should WIN without making a single ball, let alone the 9-ball, doesn't understand sports.

3 Foul Rule is like getting a Participation Trophy. With a Reach-Around.

</rant>

Suffice to say, I highly prefer and dearly miss 2-Shot Foul 9-Ball. THE game for purists.

-von
No doubt. Its obvious when you play it how good a game it is. Most have never even tried it. While i can appreciate safeties and kicking, the switch to TE rules did not make the game better. It was to make tournaments go faster. That's it. Oh well, this poor old horse has been beat to DEATH. I'm done, gone, out. BTW, one-foul sucks.
 

SlickRick_PCS

Pool, Snooker, Carom
Silver Member
TOTALLY AGREE WITH MICHAEL!!

TX Express has ruined 9-ball.

You don't think pushing out was defense?? You had to fully understand your strengths and weaknesses, AND those of your opponent.

That's what determined how and when you pushed out, NOT when you accidentally got out of line and had no shot.

If anything, TE is much more offensive (in every sense of the word). You either B&R, or you duck. That's it.

And the absolute WORST rule on the planet?? THREE FOUL RULE!!
Whoever thought that somebody should WIN without making a single ball, let alone the 9-ball, doesn't understand sports.

3 Foul Rule is like getting a Participation Trophy. With a Reach-Around.

</rant>

Suffice to say, I highly prefer and dearly miss 2-Shot Foul 9-Ball. THE game for purists.

-von

I may be one of those who was not even born when the pre-Texas Express rules came about, but I would damn well like to see how this game is even played. Someone should put a tournament on this game.
Does someone know the rules to that form of 9ball?
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
It ain't worth the effort brother. Roll-out is deader than HulaHoop. Now its duck-n-hide safety play, jump shots and NO spot shots. And somehow TE made the game better. Whatever.

Anddddddddddddddddddd, KICKING 3 rails with 2 open balls left before the F'ING cheese, on ( possibly ) your OWN CASH, because instead of playing the "with-less-than-perfect-shape" shot they just played, your opponent has cajones the size of a MUSTARD SEED ( read: microscopically tiny ) and decides to duck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No thank you...

Oh, wait... I ain't got no choice cause as you said, 2 fouls is deader than hula hoops and Greta Garbo.
 

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
I may be one of those who was not even born when the pre-Texas Express rules came about, but I would damn well like to see how this game is even played. Someone should put a tournament on this game.
Does someone know the rules to that form of 9ball?

Rick - I'm pretty sure someone here posted the rules in one of the infinite # of threads debating 2foul vs TE. But I've no idea where. I could list them, but, I'm sorry to say, due to chemo and radiation, I'm all out of the energy it would take. And, depending what region you were playing in ( NE, midwest, south, left coast, etc ), the rules varied slightly. But the main principle was the same. If hooked, you could push out. Your opponent then could opt to give it back or shoot. If he gave it back and you foul again, he gets bih. MONSTROUS amount of strategy involved, which doesn't exist anymore.

Your suggestion for a tourney playing 2foul is great, except that, if someone did, TE would be deader than a door nail shortly thereafter and then there would HELL to PAY! :grin::grin::grin:
 
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