Cue Balance Point Misconception ???

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Custom Balance Points

Everybody who buys or makes a custom cue usually knows its balance point and it never changes unless something is modified on the cue (new shaft, wrap, weight bolt, etc.) and people will argue about whether a neutral balance is better, or a forward balance, or a rear balance.

A custom balance is DIFFERENT for each player, because not everyone is the same size and has the same bridge length. Nobody shoots with a cue perfectly level and holding the cue by the "balance point". Their grip hand is usually several inches behind the balance point in order to allow the cue to balance out between the arm span, the length and weight of the cue, and the bridge distance.

One fact that is often overlooked is the fact that a cue is almost never used while it is perfectly level because the player has to lift the butt of the cue a bit to keep it up off the rail while shooting. You almost always are shooting on a bit of a downward angle from the cue to the cue ball.

A cue's balance point is not the SAME for everyone when you are actually using the cue. If I'm using the cue on a downward elevation, that puts more weight on the forward end which makes me have to move my grip hand further back than I would on a level shot or adjust my bridge length to even it out. People with shorter arms are different than people with longer arms. Also, the more you shoot in an elevated position affects the way you hold the cue.

A cue that is a bit butt heavy allows you to hold the cue at a more elevated angle (same as shooting) without having to move your bridge hand or grip hand to accommodate the balance. The balance is moved forward because of the elevation of the cue and not the moving of the bridge and grip hand.

IMHO, cues should be "balanced" to the player, rather than saying one balance (you pick it) fits all. The length of the cue should be based upon the person's arm span and the balance should be adjusted upon the person's actual grip and bridge length while the cue is in the "normal" elevated shooting position.

This is my theory, so feel to discuss, flame, join, etc. I'm willing to learn something from anybody who can contribute.

Aloha.
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
The exact point at which the cue balanced never really interested me other than I preferred a cue that was forward weighted. That is; a balance point in front of the 'A' joint. :)
 

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, how does one determine what the proper balance is for a given player?
 

gogg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Forward weight seems to work smoother for me as well.......( for what it is worth)


* wish I had started this crap earlier *
 

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe but you can't change cues during a game.... it's not golf.............

Is that actually a rule? I mean you can grab your jump cue or break cue and use those, is there anything that specifically says you can't have multiple playing cues?

(not that I think that is a good idea, just curious)
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Couldn't tell you where the balance point is on the Cue, that Guido Orlandi made me. I just know which end to use, where to grip it & I have a good idea the object ball is going in one of them holes.

I think it is an 18.8, 58 inches long & has a cork wrap. It also has a new Orlandi Joint.

I'm sure glad he makes chocolate & vanilla or some derivative thereof, so we can all be happy with "our" stuff.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Would different balanced cues be more effective for different shots?

FWIW, I think I can "kill" and "draw" the cue ball better with a cue that is a bit butt heavy and I can "follow" the ball better with a more forward weighted cue.

I think you have to find the "balance" between the variations of the game that YOU play and have the cue fit you...not you fitting the cue. It shouldn't be based upon an arbitrary balance point on a piece of wood.
 

prewarhero

guess my avatar
Silver Member
The placement of the bridge hand will differ from shot to shot. To a much greater extent the grip hand placement will also change or I should say should change based on the desired stroke and bridge hand placement. So given all else being equal (ie cue level) the balance point will always change relative to the hand placement.

More so, when you elevate the cue the balance is the same just at a different angle. What will change is the muscle used and level of muscle excersion used to generate the stroke.

The balance of my cue which I like very much after trying MANY, feels well balanced regardless of cue angle and hand placement. So with all that said I really don't see any revelation here.
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
So, how does one determine what the proper balance is for a given player?

That's a difficult question to answer. In my view a cue either balances forward of the right hand, or to the rear of the right hand. Schon cues, for instance, have a forward feel, whereas Viking cues have a rearward feel.
Whether a precise location could be built into a custom cue; I'm sure it could, although I wouldn't see the point. :smile:
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
Forward weight seems to work smoother for me as well.......( for what it is worth)
* wish I had started this crap earlier *

I think it does for most people, but then cues are generally made that way, anyway. :smile:
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
The placement of the bridge hand will differ from shot to shot. To a much greater extent the grip hand placement will also change or I should say should change based on the desired stroke and bridge hand placement. So given all else being equal (ie cue level) the balance point will always change relative to the hand placement.
More so, when you elevate the cue the balance is the same just at a different angle. What will change is the muscle used and level of muscle excersion used to generate the stroke.
The balance of my cue which I like very much after trying MANY, feels well balanced regardless of cue angle and hand placement. So with all that said I really don't see any revelation here.

I think what the OP meant was the static balance point. :smile:
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Whether a precise location could be built into a custom cue; I'm sure it could, although I wouldn't see the point. :smile:

That is exactly the "point".

If you are 6'4" tall (76 inches) and have a 76 inch arm span, I'm sure you hold the cue differently than a person who is 5 feet tall with a 60 inch arm span.

For the 76 inch person using a 58 inch cue: If your bridge is 10 inches and you feel "comfortable" with the balance and you are holding the butt at it's very end, you have 48 inches of cue between your grip hand and your bridge.

If you are 60 inches tall using a 58 inch cue: If you use a 10" bridge and you hold the cue right behind the balance point (around 18-19 inches) you have around 8-10 inches of cue sticking out behind your grip hand. The 60 inch person can't hold the cue at the very end without lengthening their bridge length to make up the difference in arm span.

Are we to think that the "feel" of balance for both people is the same? If that is the case, why are the players holding the SAME cue differently and claiming it is "balanced"? I think the cue should be balanced to the "individual". That may involve shortening or lengthening the cue to accommodate individual players, rather than the usual "one size fits all".
 
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Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
That is exactly the "point".

If you are 6'4" tall (76 inches) and have a 76 inch arm span, I'm sure you hold the cue differently than a person who is 5 feet tall with a 60 inch arm span.
For the 76 inch person using a 58 inch cue: If your bridge is 10 inches and you feel "comfortable" with the balance and you are holding the butt at it's very end, you have 48 inches of cue between your grip hand and your bridge.
If you are 60 inches tall using a 58 inch cue: If you use a 10" bridge and you hold the cue right behind the balance point (around 18-19 inches) you have around 8-10 inches of cue sticking out behind your grip hand. The 60 inch person can't hold the cue at the very end without lengthening their bridge length to make up the difference in arm span.
Are we to think that the "feel" of balance for both people are the same? If that is the case, why are the players holding the SAME cue differently and claiming it is "balanced"? I think the cue should be balanced to the "individual". That may involve shortening or lengthening the cue to accommodate individual players, rather than the usual "one size fits all".

If this taller (76 inch) person were to have a cue built for him it would probably be a 59, or 60 inch cue. If this longer cue was built by the same cue maker who built the shorter cue, the balance point would be the same. The extra length is what would benefit the taller person.
Balance points tend to be standard among cue makers, depending upon how they construct their 'A' joints. :smile:
 

Chrippa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I order the cues that is designed to be played by me with a balance point at 19,5 (from butt - no bumper/58 cue) or close. I can play with whatever but this BP fits me the best.
A custom maker can make it.
One thing for me were it´s very important is when jacking up, to butt heavy and my confidence, my feeling for the shot goes down because I feel that I need to "point down" the cue with force, instead of just letting it fall into place.

Most CM´s I work with have their own personal feel of what their cues will have, mostly neutral or forward. Neutral being around 18-to close under 19 and forward above 19-20. Just my figures but I believe they are true to most CM´s thoughts about it also.

I don´t know any CM that has a setup that is buttheavy as a standard. Any ideas?

Also, you can have a bp that is 19 but if it´s not "evenly balanced" the weight shift when holding the cue in different positions will shift "fast" and that´s no good for me either.
A good cue feels balanced "all over".

Some examples would be:
Lambros
Dayton
Esoteric
Murrell
DZ
QP
etc etc.

Great playing cues all of them imo.

Regards

Christian
 

1971

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Custom Balance Points

Everybody who buys or makes a custom cue usually knows its balance point and it never changes unless something is modified on the cue (new shaft, wrap, weight bolt, etc.) and people will argue about whether a neutral balance is better, or a forward balance, or a rear balance.

A custom balance is DIFFERENT for each player, because not everyone is the same size and has the same bridge length. Nobody shoots with a cue perfectly level and holding the cue by the "balance point". Their grip hand is usually several inches behind the balance point in order to allow the cue to balance out between the arm span, the length and weight of the cue, and the bridge distance.

One fact that is often overlooked is the fact that a cue is almost never used while it is perfectly level because the player has to lift the butt of the cue a bit to keep it up off the rail while shooting. You almost always are shooting on a bit of a downward angle from the cue to the cue ball.

A cue's balance point is not the SAME for everyone when you are actually using the cue. If I'm using the cue on a downward elevation, that puts more weight on the forward end which makes me have to move my grip hand further back than I would on a level shot or adjust my bridge length to even it out. People with shorter arms are different than people with longer arms. Also, the more you shoot in an elevated position affects the way you hold the cue.

A cue that is a bit butt heavy allows you to hold the cue at a more elevated angle (same as shooting) without having to move your bridge hand or grip hand to accommodate the balance. The balance is moved forward because of the elevation of the cue and not the moving of the bridge and grip hand.

IMHO, cues should be "balanced" to the player, rather than saying one balance (you pick it) fits all. The length of the cue should be based upon the person's arm span and the balance should be adjusted upon the person's actual grip and bridge length while the cue is in the "normal" elevated shooting position.

This is my theory, so feel to discuss, flame, join, etc. I'm willing to learn something from anybody who can contribute.

Aloha.
A few thoughts regarding the balance point of a cue. A player who holds their cue at or near the butt sleeve may enjoy playing with a wide range of BP's, whereas the player who holds their cue near the BP may have difficulty finding a comfortably balanced cue to play with. Also, in experimenting with BP's by adding and subtracting weight via weight bolts, set screws and lead tape, I believe the weight distribution of a cue may affect the way a cue "feels" when swung. Two butts with virtually identical BP's (yes, the BP of the butt only) may feel quite differently even if the same shaft is used on both butts because the weight distribution of the butts may differ considerably. Another factor is shaft weight and it's weight distribution. The weight distribution of two shafts both weighing 4 ozs. will obviously have different weight distribution if one of the shafts has an insert and the other say, tapped for the 3/8" 10 thread. Also, forward balanced cues may be more consistent feeling from cue to cue than cues balanced around 18". The term "Custom" may mean more than one thing, especially with something that lends itself to artistic embellishment. Is a cue custom to you because of all the fancy doodads or because it was made to your exacting specifications of balance point, weight, taper, etc.? Or, have you been lucky enough to find a cue maker that can perform both? Personally, I prefer a cue that "feels" so damn good I hate to quit playing for the day and could care less about fancy. I have nothing against fancy cues and have a great deal of respect for the perfection and beauty that most cue makers exhibit in their product. Most players seem to get by fine with the average BP's available in cues nowadays but there are some players, like myself, that have a difficult time finding a comfortable playing cue. :frown:
 
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