PORKYS POOLHALL
DONNELLY'S CUSTOM CUES
Hi Everyone What Do You Guys Think Is The Worst Thing That We Have Going Against Us In The Pool And Billiard Industry?
What Do You Think
- Thread starter PORKYS POOLHALL
- Start date
You got that right! I've lost many a good pool player to the poker palace.nfty9er said:
The other worst thing: cheap customers who want everything free...
Unrealistic expectations
Unrealistic expectations in every aspect of the game.
People expect to make a living hustling pool now like its 1940.
People expect to have a 3 ball advantage in a game before committing to it.
Note: That's why it's called "gambling" and not "robbery" people.
People expect pool to be cheap even when rent, workman's comp insurance, health insurance, heating and airconditioning bills, gas and electric bills, local/state/federal taxes have all gone up. During the Clinton administration many business tax write offs were discontinued. But the general public still wants to pay 1975 prices to play pool.
We charge $3.60/hour/person. According to the rate of inflation we should be charging $7.55/hour/person just to stay even with inflation. That means we have taken a 50% cut in pay just to keep customers coming in the door over the past 20 years.
Gambling Boats/ Casinos- Yes those have affected the gambler segment of pool. I do not believe it is as prevelant as people think though. I would guess less than 5% of pools problems is casinos. Even less with all the drama associated with no-smoking laws. Everyone wants to point fingers at ONE problem. Business NEVER works that way. You dont succeed because of ONE thing...and you don't FAIL because of one thing.
Oversaturation of the market. St Louis used to have TWO pool rooms in the 70's. My family's room and one other;Affton Billiards. When pool started a comeback...every pool player wanted to start their own room. Suddenly over a ten year period there were 20 major rooms in the area. Everyone was barely making it because the money was split up between all of us. Now in St. Louis 4 rooms have gone under and two others are struggling. This is in the past year. We are adjusting to the market again. Now in order to make a profit...many of these same rooms have converted to a nightclub or sports bar atmosphere with girls in halter tops and live hip hop/ rock band playing while you are playing pool. Very few pool rooms that I know where pool actually comes first. Very few room owners take pool seriously anymore. Reason? There's no money in it.
Basic economic reality; The average American has less discretionary income than they did one generation ago. They split thier money between going to the movies, bowling, playing pool, eating out, golf, amusement park etc. This means in order to survive there has to be a proportionate number LESS of entertainment venues to spend your money. That is all part of the struggle.
Pool as a sport. Pool continues to shoot itself in the foot with its antics and unprofessional behavior. Every time a new tour comes along or new set of pro players....we derail ourselves because of wanting to make a quick buck. When the magazine is empty...we reload...and shoot ourselves again. Not having a regulatory organization that ALL POOL must adhere too means every bar owner or pool room owner or local league player has his own rules and agenda which may or may not benefit pool as a whole. When we have a long term organization that takes control and has a spine to enforce the rules..only then will pool as a SPORT..not a GAME...be successful. This will take years and years...not a month or two. Again...back to...unrealistic expectations. We want results now and refuse to work for them.
Bar leagues. Most bar leagues are set up to make pool sloppy, fast and confrontational. They are not set up to make you a better player. Pockets are bigger, tables are smaller, balls are different weights or dimensions depending on the table. People that sandbag and dont play their best are often rewarded. The whole economic model is set up for alchol sales and quarters. This is how MOST people play pool. If professional baseball was played this way...no one would go to a game. All the players would be drunk..borrowing quarters off someone so they could go up to bat next? Then they would deliberately strike out so their handicap would not be adjusted? Is that how we want to play this? Seriously?
EDIT: Don't get me started on credit card fees and charges and everyone wanting to put a $1.25 worth of candy and $2.00 worth of pool on their VISA. People USED to have $5.00 cash in their wallet. Now they prefer to spread out that $5.00 into monthly payments and pay 18.99% interest on it.
Just a couple ideas from one person.
Unrealistic expectations in every aspect of the game.
People expect to make a living hustling pool now like its 1940.
People expect to have a 3 ball advantage in a game before committing to it.
Note: That's why it's called "gambling" and not "robbery" people.
People expect pool to be cheap even when rent, workman's comp insurance, health insurance, heating and airconditioning bills, gas and electric bills, local/state/federal taxes have all gone up. During the Clinton administration many business tax write offs were discontinued. But the general public still wants to pay 1975 prices to play pool.
We charge $3.60/hour/person. According to the rate of inflation we should be charging $7.55/hour/person just to stay even with inflation. That means we have taken a 50% cut in pay just to keep customers coming in the door over the past 20 years.
Gambling Boats/ Casinos- Yes those have affected the gambler segment of pool. I do not believe it is as prevelant as people think though. I would guess less than 5% of pools problems is casinos. Even less with all the drama associated with no-smoking laws. Everyone wants to point fingers at ONE problem. Business NEVER works that way. You dont succeed because of ONE thing...and you don't FAIL because of one thing.
Oversaturation of the market. St Louis used to have TWO pool rooms in the 70's. My family's room and one other;Affton Billiards. When pool started a comeback...every pool player wanted to start their own room. Suddenly over a ten year period there were 20 major rooms in the area. Everyone was barely making it because the money was split up between all of us. Now in St. Louis 4 rooms have gone under and two others are struggling. This is in the past year. We are adjusting to the market again. Now in order to make a profit...many of these same rooms have converted to a nightclub or sports bar atmosphere with girls in halter tops and live hip hop/ rock band playing while you are playing pool. Very few pool rooms that I know where pool actually comes first. Very few room owners take pool seriously anymore. Reason? There's no money in it.
Basic economic reality; The average American has less discretionary income than they did one generation ago. They split thier money between going to the movies, bowling, playing pool, eating out, golf, amusement park etc. This means in order to survive there has to be a proportionate number LESS of entertainment venues to spend your money. That is all part of the struggle.
Pool as a sport. Pool continues to shoot itself in the foot with its antics and unprofessional behavior. Every time a new tour comes along or new set of pro players....we derail ourselves because of wanting to make a quick buck. When the magazine is empty...we reload...and shoot ourselves again. Not having a regulatory organization that ALL POOL must adhere too means every bar owner or pool room owner or local league player has his own rules and agenda which may or may not benefit pool as a whole. When we have a long term organization that takes control and has a spine to enforce the rules..only then will pool as a SPORT..not a GAME...be successful. This will take years and years...not a month or two. Again...back to...unrealistic expectations. We want results now and refuse to work for them.
Bar leagues. Most bar leagues are set up to make pool sloppy, fast and confrontational. They are not set up to make you a better player. Pockets are bigger, tables are smaller, balls are different weights or dimensions depending on the table. People that sandbag and dont play their best are often rewarded. The whole economic model is set up for alchol sales and quarters. This is how MOST people play pool. If professional baseball was played this way...no one would go to a game. All the players would be drunk..borrowing quarters off someone so they could go up to bat next? Then they would deliberately strike out so their handicap would not be adjusted? Is that how we want to play this? Seriously?
EDIT: Don't get me started on credit card fees and charges and everyone wanting to put a $1.25 worth of candy and $2.00 worth of pool on their VISA. People USED to have $5.00 cash in their wallet. Now they prefer to spread out that $5.00 into monthly payments and pay 18.99% interest on it.
Just a couple ideas from one person.
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PORKYS POOLHALL said:
Porkey, the major problem from my perspective!!
First of all, there is no organization that supports pool and billiards on a national level. Please, do not bring up the BCA, because they no longer are the National Governing Body of this Sport. What pool and billiards needs is a Organization that promotes our sport to all segments of the society, especially the young. This Organization, would need to take on the task, of Trade shows, Leagues, Pro-Level National Tournaments, National Juniors events, and in addition take over and run the Main Pro-billiards tour events, along with all other Pool and Billiards related projects.
By one organization being responsible for the entire sport in this country, Pool and Billiards would no longer need to find backing for tour events. An Organization like this would be taken seriously, and the events that have transpired over the last twenty or so years that has forced sponsorship away could be over come.
This same type of organization, would greatly benefit room owners, Billiards retailers, and wholesalers in the same manner through its membership. Major costs, such as insurance could be negotiated for group rates on a National level. All room owners on a National level could have a vote for the current Hall Of SHAME!!!!!!!, and we could make it a Hall of Fame once again. Qualifiers for all levels from the Juniors to the Pro-events could be held at member rooms throughout the entire country. Instructional certification would truly be worth more than the paper it is currently written on. However, this can only be achieved if all the working parts where pool and billiards are concerned were organized into a Nation wide coalition.
Strength is in numbers, is the only way things can ever change is through a strong unified Organization on a National level.
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I would also say more people just aren't taking up the sport as a real hobby. Bangers will always be around and thats where we as a pool rooms make our money, along with the beer, liquor, food and proshop sales. Pool players in general are cheap. We charge $3.50 an hr per person with 1 or 2 players with 3 or more its $2.50 an hr per person. Very reasonable in my opinion. Video games, internet, and poker (internet poker) are taking up time in young perspective players lives. I have been busting my hump trying to start an inhouse leauge and no dice. I can't get the locals off the bar boxes and on to the big tables. We have a large number of local leauge players around but all play on bar tables. I have a love hate relationship with bar boxes
Play Stations, X box 360 , internet , poker , inflation ,outlawing poker machines , take your pick! Poker however is the only thing keeping the doors open in my hometown room.IMHO
All the good rooms in the nearby larger cities have diversified to survive. Good Kitchen , Alcohol , APA and BCA leagues , Dart Leagues and sell everything possible relating to these things. I am glad they can make it so I can play pool!!
All the good rooms in the nearby larger cities have diversified to survive. Good Kitchen , Alcohol , APA and BCA leagues , Dart Leagues and sell everything possible relating to these things. I am glad they can make it so I can play pool!!
Then of course we are forced to go with the flow?
I guess it may take a larger investment of money to actually buy all your own equipment? There is a vending/coin-op company locally that has had the bar league market saturated with VNEA, but APA & BCA has really taken off here locally in the past 5 years, BCA more-over than all 3 national leagues. Since this local vending/coin-op was making absorbanent amounts of cash, not only from sanction fee's/league dues, etc, but they were getting half the quarters from the bar boxes. They payouts were horrible, and the trophies got cheaper and cheaper. (sigh)
The Diamond 7x3.5 Smart table is where it will be at in the future, in my opinion. I would have to say bye bye to the 8' tables. BarBoxes and 9' tables, maybe a 10x5 shimed snooker table for golf, and possibly a 12x6 grabiel for carom. Then of course.... A top notch liquor license, kitchen, bar to make up for it all. Brings in the tough crowds and drama dilutionals.
I guess it may take a larger investment of money to actually buy all your own equipment? There is a vending/coin-op company locally that has had the bar league market saturated with VNEA, but APA & BCA has really taken off here locally in the past 5 years, BCA more-over than all 3 national leagues. Since this local vending/coin-op was making absorbanent amounts of cash, not only from sanction fee's/league dues, etc, but they were getting half the quarters from the bar boxes. They payouts were horrible, and the trophies got cheaper and cheaper. (sigh)
The Diamond 7x3.5 Smart table is where it will be at in the future, in my opinion. I would have to say bye bye to the 8' tables. BarBoxes and 9' tables, maybe a 10x5 shimed snooker table for golf, and possibly a 12x6 grabiel for carom. Then of course.... A top notch liquor license, kitchen, bar to make up for it all. Brings in the tough crowds and drama dilutionals.