Ontario Cue Sports ratings
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guelphdad
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Ontario Cue Sports ratings - 10-04-2016, 07:29 AM

Just wondering some thoughts on player ratings list put out by Ontario Cue Sports-OBSA. Am not looking for specifics of why one player is rated this and not that but a couple of other things.

The list is an attempt to give better organization across more tournaments and providing points at each event that can accumulate. To quote them: "Top point sitters will recieve cash and entries to provincials. All will be address at the beginning of each event. It is a start "

I think the idea is good but I'm not sure of the execution. They have listed professionals on the list (I guess to exclude them from amateur events) then listed players from AAA-C level players.

For those interested in this list it can be found here

I agree in theory that having a unified list across a number of events (I think there are ten or twelve events across Ontario that these points will accrue from).

My two basic questions to them went unanswered and am just querying AZ players for thoughts.

First how did they come up with an initial rating for players but more importantly how do players move from one rating to another?

The former they basically said based on past events, but the latter they gave no answer for.

Lets say I am an 'A' player, perhaps closer to a 'B'. What makes a player move from one level to another (or from a 4 handicap to a 5 or a 6 for example if you are more familiar with that level of handicap system).

Since I'm not really a tournament player (but have interest in pool in a general sense), I'm just curious about more experienced players thoughts on maintaining such a list without an actual explanation clause for the list about how a player would move from rank to rank. Either we get better, worse or stay the same right?

But let's say they put me on the list as an 'A' player. Let's say I don't win any tournaments but also don't finish in the very bottom either. How/when would a determination be made of moving me to a 'AA' or down to a 'B'?

I'm asking the former in your opinion as players how you think they should do this. I mean all the players shouldn't remain static and probably won't but I don't think the movement should be arbitrary/obfuscated as it now seems to be.

Not directly related to this list but general thoughts:

I'm sure that in tournaments it is hard to put a value on a new or outside player. I know in the past people have been upset where they see someone ranked one way at one establishment/tournament and a different level at another. I know people who have been upset when they've had their handicap change in the middle of a tournament too.

So really overall I think a unified list like this from a governing body is good, I'm just surprised that there is no written explanation of how players move up or down. yes I asked, no I didn't get a response.

PLEASE if not clear I don't want an "ask them again" response from AZ members but more of an explanation from your own experiences if you favour having such a list or not and if you are in favour of such a list how do you think a list like this should be handled based on your past tournament experiences.

I've done some reading on FARGO ratings and know there are lots of opinions there too.

Last edited by guelphdad; 10-04-2016 at 07:33 AM.
  
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10-04-2016, 08:48 AM

I hope they just go to FargoRate....solves the problem...
....locks us into all North America


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10-04-2016, 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by guelphdad View Post
Just wondering some thoughts on player ratings list put out by Ontario Cue Sports-OBSA. Am not looking for specifics of why one player is rated this and not that but a couple of other things.

The list is an attempt to give better organization across more tournaments and providing points at each event that can accumulate. To quote them: "Top point sitters will recieve cash and entries to provincials. All will be address at the beginning of each event. It is a start "

I think the idea is good but I'm not sure of the execution. They have listed professionals on the list (I guess to exclude them from amateur events) then listed players from AAA-C level players.

For those interested in this list it can be found here

I agree in theory that having a unified list across a number of events (I think there are ten or twelve events across Ontario that these points will accrue from).

My two basic questions to them went unanswered and am just querying AZ players for thoughts.

First how did they come up with an initial rating for players but more importantly how do players move from one rating to another?

The former they basically said based on past events, but the latter they gave no answer for.

Lets say I am an 'A' player, perhaps closer to a 'B'. What makes a player move from one level to another (or from a 4 handicap to a 5 or a 6 for example if you are more familiar with that level of handicap system).

Since I'm not really a tournament player (but have interest in pool in a general sense), I'm just curious about more experienced players thoughts on maintaining such a list without an actual explanation clause for the list about how a player would move from rank to rank. Either we get better, worse or stay the same right?

But let's say they put me on the list as an 'A' player. Let's say I don't win any tournaments but also don't finish in the very bottom either. How/when would a determination be made of moving me to a 'AA' or down to a 'B'?

I'm asking the former in your opinion as players how you think they should do this. I mean all the players shouldn't remain static and probably won't but I don't think the movement should be arbitrary/obfuscated as it now seems to be.

Not directly related to this list but general thoughts:

I'm sure that in tournaments it is hard to put a value on a new or outside player. I know in the past people have been upset where they see someone ranked one way at one establishment/tournament and a different level at another. I know people who have been upset when they've had their handicap change in the middle of a tournament too.

So really overall I think a unified list like this from a governing body is good, I'm just surprised that there is no written explanation of how players move up or down. yes I asked, no I didn't get a response.

PLEASE if not clear I don't want an "ask them again" response from AZ members but more of an explanation from your own experiences if you favour having such a list or not and if you are in favour of such a list how do you think a list like this should be handled based on your past tournament experiences.

I've done some reading on FARGO ratings and know there are lots of opinions there too.
There's multiple players on that list OVERrated. I don't see too many under valued but i think that list needs to fine tuned or a better way to figure out ones handicap


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10-04-2016, 09:08 AM

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Originally Posted by j_zippel View Post
There's multiple players on that list OVERrated. I don't see too many under valued but i think that list needs to fine tuned or a better way to figure out ones handicap
Yeah they have said that the list is in flux. And agree, my point entirely, seems like explaining how you move up or down would be best (and in writing).

I understand there was explanation in person about the list at the first event.

I'm hoping to play in a couple just to get some experience.

I used to play snooker, played in some small tournaments. Gave up pool/snooker for a number of years. Got back to playing about five years ago. Just play 8-ball in an in-house league on nine footers, but I think it's time to get out of that and back to tournament play. The league I play in is decent, but doesn't allow enough play to bring my game up where I'd like it to be.
  
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10-04-2016, 09:11 AM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
I hope they just go to FargoRate....solves the problem...
....locks us into all North America
I'd agree with that.
  
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10-06-2016, 11:56 PM

I believe they are rated base on the result of the tournaments.The list is old and i know the organization is working on updating them.


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10-13-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by guelphdad View Post
Yeah they have said that the list is in flux. And agree, my point entirely, seems like explaining how you move up or down would be best (and in writing).
Unless they adopt something objective like Fargo Rate, it will continue to be subjective. You win a lot, people ***** enough and someone makes the subjective call you should be moved up. Lose a lot and you ***** enough and maybe someone makes the call you should go down.

BTW, if you have honest and smart people making the call, the grouping of handicaps will be pretty close to what you get on Fargo. Mike Page posted an analysis of a Texas system and included the old handicaps - the vast majority of the players seemed grouped together (by similar Fargo ratings) with others of similar handicaps.


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