Bank pool... Systems or Rote?

Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll second the subconscious/intuitive part of what has been said.

When I learned to play pool there was no Internet or even VHS. Growing up in the boonies I didn't yet have Willie's book or even know that books might have been available. Being a self taught kind of guy I just practiced 8 hours a day M-F and figured it out on my own. I had no clue there was any system to it but I did have geometry in high school and understood angles. I also had a couple years of physics under my belt and I think that gave me an edge as well.

After sometimes practicing nothing but banks for hours I eventually got to the point that I just looked at the CB, OB and the target pocket, got down and waited until I saw 'the spot' that I had to hit on the OB and stroked it in. I still use that process to this day and it works well enough that I can set up and repeatedly make the same shot over and over in practice. I don't have an explanation of why or how it works, but I am glad it does!

I have tried a couple of the systems for grins and they do not work as well for me but I can see how they would get the ball rolling (in the pocket; pun intended) for a beginner.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
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Depends on the shot. Some shots I calculate and then shoot. Other shots I calculate, then adjust by feel and rhen shoot. While others are all feel because of awkward angles.

Then again, if I'm in gear, I seldom look up to count anything...sadly, I don't find my lowly gear very often so, it's count, count and count again.

Jeff
 
ShootingArts

ShootingArts

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I agree

jay helfert said:
I'm sure they had to do more than one "take" on many of these shots. Even Bugs couldn't make them all on the first try. Bugs was a big, athletic looking guy who probably played sports in high school. I never knew anything about his past and i didn't know him that well either. Not like Freddie, that's for sure. Freddie told me once that even his family didn't know he hustled/played pool for a living. He never talked about it at home! Crazy huh. :eek:
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Jay, I agree that some of those banks no doubt took at least a few takes. I think even the phase of the moon had to be right to make some of those side pocket banks! Those two railers off of the end rail into the side pockets were the ones that really caught my eye. Some of them had a bigger window but some couldn't have had a much bigger window than a russian pyramid pocket. I don't think I would bet on myself making some of those shots one time in a dozen.

I also noticed that a lot of the banks would have missed on a pro cut Diamond. I don't know if that meant Bugs would have missed or if he would have shot them more carefully. Of course we weren't looking at Bugs in his prime here. I have read stories or excerpts of Bugs running out like rain from people that were on the receiving end.

Hu
 
B

bbb

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in the eary 1970's i watched bugs play earl heisler $500 one pocket at the sports palace in new orleans
bugs hit a 4 railer and left the cue ball where earl would have run some balls if he missed but also in a spot where he could run balls if he made it
he made it and ran out......:eek:
i was an impressionable kid at the time
and this story could be embellished alittle from it happening a long time ago
but it was the most amazing shot under pressure i had ever seen.
sorry for the sidetrack....carry on
 
C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
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My friend son is a Board Certified General Surgeon, with a fellowship in Oncology Surgury. His scrolls was like 4 year premed, 4 year medical school, 5 year residency in General Surgery, then a year of practice in Korea, then 2 year of Oncology Surgury Fellowship. Yes he is military, but the point is he put a lot of time and effort into being something great,
 
Maxx

Maxx

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CocoboloCowboy said:
My friend son is a Board Certified General Surgeon, with a fellowship in Oncology Surgury. His scrolls was like 4 year premed, 4 year medical school, 5 year residency in General Surgery, then a year of practice in Korea, then 2 year of Oncology Surgury Fellowship. Yes he is military, but the point is he put a lot of time and effort into being something great,
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Yeah, but can he bank?
 
D

Doug

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One day I was asking a friend who is/was a noted pretty good bank player, how to improve my bank shots. He knew and played Eddy Taylor and Truman Hogue. Also, had some pretty good proposition shots of his own. I told him I played by "feel" because the diamond system was too complicated. His response was: "feel"? You can feel your _ss. Why would you play by feel when you have a road map on the rails"? Lol. He also, was a strong advocate of using center ball. My friend was Vernon Elliott.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
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Is this a "system"?

pj
chgo

2 to 1.jpg
 
ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Pool Hall Degree

CocoboloCowboy said:
My friend son is a Board Certified General Surgeon, with a fellowship in Oncology Surgury. His scrolls was like 4 year premed, 4 year medical school, 5 year residency in General Surgery, then a year of practice in Korea, then 2 year of Oncology Surgury Fellowship. Yes he is military, but the point is he put a lot of time and effort into being something great,
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I considered getting a Phd once long ago. It wasn't a real happy day when I realized I had put the hours in at the pool halls to have earned a Phd. I had a Pool Hall Degree but I don't think they pay as well or as consistently and the retirement plan sucks. I suspect I did have more fun along the way though.

Hu
 
jeffj2h

jeffj2h

AzB Silver Member
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Here's what greatly improved my 8-ball/9-ball banking over the last few years:

1) Get Freddy's books "Banking with the Beard" and "Gospool"

2) Practice each shot from those books that is labeled "Automatic" (e.g. "Automatic cross side bank"). Those are the banks that come up all the time in 8-ball/9-ball. The other banks in the book are more for 1P or bank pool, and not as important for 8-ball/9-ball.

3) Once you are consistent with the above banks, you will be able to feel how to adjust when the balls are in slightly different spots (I like to initially aim like it's the exact shot from Freddy's book, then pivot the cue until it feels right).
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

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pt109 said:
Try it on a typical Diamond bar table, a blue label Diamond 9-footer, a GC, and a Robertson
...if you succeeded on all four, your feel over rode your system.
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My feel overrides all systems regularly. They're just estimating guides.

pj
chgo
 
Protractor

Protractor

AzB Silver Member
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ShootingArts said:
I considered getting a Phd once long ago. It wasn't a real happy day when I realized I had put the hours in at the pool halls to have earned a Phd. I had a Pool Hall Degree but I don't think they pay as well or as consistently and the retirement plan sucks. I suspect I did have more fun along the way though.

Hu
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LoL... when I said earlier I was putting in 8 hours a day 5 times a week it was what I was doing instead of going to college classes. I was a science/math geek but pool was way more fun and I had no idea that it would be taught at college later on. I eventually got booted out of college for not attending a single class for an extended period of time due to getting bit by the pool bug. At that point, it only cost a penny per minute for table rental so I could afford to haunt the place.

Maggie May by Rod Stewart was frequently playing on the jukebox in the student union basement where they had a couple decent 9 footers and a snooker table. The line from the song that goes "...maybe I'll steal my daddy's cue and make a living out of playing pool..." prompted me to think that, yeah, I think I could keep getting better at this and do that.

After I mentioned that to one of the older guys he explained that I would be living the life of Fast Eddy Felson and went into further detail about the life of a road agent, so I thought, eh, don't think so. If the ESPN pool thing had been happening at that time I might have still pursued it but that didn't happen till after I had moved on to a new vice, that of being a rock and roll musician/songwriter.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
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pt109 said:
Try it on a typical Diamond bar table, a blue label Diamond 9-footer, a GC, and a Robertson
...if you succeeded on all four, your feel over rode your system.
Click to expand...
Here's a system for those table-to-table adjustments.

Because rolling balls rebound long they have to be aimed short of the equal-angle spot at the cushion nose. The actual aim target is somewhere on the rail behind the equal-angle spot, and it's a similar distance back on the rail for all rolling kicks on that table. I like to visualize the aim point on the rail behind the equal-angle spot as a fraction of the distance from the nose to the diamond, as illustrated by the yellow "rulers" in the pics below.

On this Virtual Pool table the aim points are right about at the diamond behind the equal-angle cushion nose spot - this is about how my usual table plays (Metro with Simonis 860). On a shorter-banking table, like one with faster or dirtier rails, the aim points will be closer to the cushion nose. On new slippery cloth the aim points can be behind the diamonds.

pj
chgo

kick rulers 1.jpg
kick rulers 2.jpg
 
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pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
My feel overrides all systems regularly. They're just estimating guides.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I like what you’re saying.
Were you ever trying a bank for a while....and realized the cushion was banking shorter...
...because the multiple hits on the same spot livens up the rubber?
 
ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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same here!

Protractor said:
LoL... when I said earlier I was putting in 8 hours a day 5 times a week it was what I was doing instead of going to college classes. I was a science/math geek but pool was way more fun and I had no idea that it would be taught at college later on. I eventually got booted out of college for not attending a single class for an extended period of time due to getting bit by the pool bug. At that point, it only cost a penny per minute for table rental so I could afford to haunt the place.

Maggie May by Rod Stewart was frequently playing on the jukebox in the student union basement where they had a couple decent 9 footers and a snooker table. The line from the song that goes "...maybe I'll steal my daddy's cue and make a living out of playing pool..." prompted me to think that, yeah, I think I could keep getting better at this and do that.

After I mentioned that to one of the older guys he explained that I would be living the life of Fast Eddy Felson and went into further detail about the life of a road agent, so I thought, eh, don't think so. If the ESPN pool thing had been happening at that time I might have still pursued it but that didn't happen till after I had moved on to a new vice, that of being a rock and roll musician/songwriter.
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At about the same age I dismissed the life of a pool player. Fortunately for me one of the pro pool fiascos wasn't showing any signs of life at the time. For most people they pay equally well but rock and roll musicians get more girls! Of course one song can make you comfortable for life if you write the right one. Nothing comparable to that in pool. I did make a living out of playing pool for a few months here and there but I was never tempted to make it a full time gig.

Hu
 
B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
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yo

pt109 said:
I like what you’re saying.
Were you ever trying a bank for a while....and realized the cushion was banking shorter...
...because the multiple hits on the same spot livens up the rubber?[/QUOTE]

To answer a previous question when the result is different than expected for the system
I figure out the adjustment and use that new formula and new tracts
Perfect example I find for me on a gold crown I have to aim around 2 to go 3 rails to the corner from the corner
On a diamond it’s 1 1/2 for me
Once I have baseline I can adjust
............
Your quote bolder above is a very astute observation.
I never thought about that
Thanks.....:thumbup:
Click to expand...
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
It helps to have a way to find the half way point of a bank but that doesn't mean you'll play it that way. It's more like maybe now you'll know how not to play it.
 
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