Tip Steer

Ironhead1970

Registered
I just got the DigiCue Blue and it's showing tip steer left like 8 out 10 shots.
Great but how do I fix it?
I think my grip is tightening up on my forward stroke just before impact with the cue ball? Does that make sense? I tried moving my grip hand farther up my cue but that feels uncomfortable and I can't get a good stroke that way,
Next time i will ask about getting rid of my chicken wing and doing the whole Funky chicken dance on tough shots.


Thank You
Bob. M
 

Imac007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First thing I would check is the alignment of the cue, vertical cueing arm and bridge on the target line. Of course the head must be over the target line. If the cueing shoulder and upper arm arm are over the cue, and the forearm is vertical, the cue should run in a straight line. Keep the grip hand thumb vertical. The grip should open and close at the back as the cue goes back and forward. If you simply let the hand open and maintain very light contact, it keeps the cue from deviating. You are not to constrain the cue, simply allowing your hand to flex open with the backswing and reclose moving forward. The elbow opens then closes propelling the cue. That cue action is just an unhurried open>close. I would say that grip is the wrong word for the hand. Describing the hand as simply holding the cue conveys its passive role but is also inaccurate. The cueing hand responds to the elbow action. If the cue was originally aligned the hand keeps wobble from entering the equation.

I assume a right handed player. The description you have of the cue "steering left" could be an alignment issue. If the digicue is sensing a lateral move it may be a subconscious response to the bridge being slightly too far left on the shots in question. The bridge being even a little left of the line made by the upper arm, shoulder and vertical forearm wil cause the tip to move slightly left as it moves forward. The subconscious, if compensating will either curl to the left or tip the forearm away from the vertical and tilt to to the inside to correct the skewed cue travel.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
First thing I would check is the alignment of the cue, vertical cueing arm and bridge on the target line. Of course the head must be over the target line. If the cueing shoulder and upper arm arm are over the cue, and the forearm is vertical, the cue should run in a straight line. Keep the grip hand thumb vertical. The grip should open and close at the back as the cue goes back and forward. If you simply let the hand open and maintain very light contact, it keeps the cue from deviating. You are not to constrain the cue, simply allowing your hand to flex open with the backswing and reclose moving forward. The elbow opens then closes propelling the cue. That cue action is just an unhurried open>close. I would say that grip is the wrong word for the hand. Describing the hand as simply holding the cue conveys its passive role but is also inaccurate. The cueing hand responds to the elbow action. If the cue was originally aligned the hand keeps wobble from entering the equation.

I assume a right handed player. The description you have of the cue "steering left" could be an alignment issue. If the digicue is sensing a lateral move it may be a subconscious response to the bridge being slightly too far left on the shots in question. The bridge being even a little left of the line made by the upper arm, shoulder and vertical forearm wil cause the tip to move slightly left as it moves forward. The subconscious, if compensating will either curl to the left or tip the forearm away from the vertical and tilt to to the inside to correct the skewed cue travel.



No actually the grip need do nothing of the sort (open and close) during our motions.... of


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No actually the grip need do nothing of the sort (open and close) during our motions.... of


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm wondering the same thing. That's why I like it when players who post use their real names so they can take responsibility for what they say. That whole grip open-close thing is totally unnecessary. I've seen some players do it but it's more like a quirk than it is an actual fundamental. Good fundamentals have logic behind them. What's the logic behind opening and closing your grip hand --- in response to the elbow moving? Seriously? Then that person must also be encouraging the player to clamp down with the thumb and index finger as well. Bad advice.
 
Last edited:

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just got the DigiCue Blue and it's showing tip steer left like 8 out 10 shots.
Great but how do I fix it?
I think my grip is tightening up on my forward stroke just before impact with the cue ball? Does that make sense? I tried moving my grip hand farther up my cue but that feels uncomfortable and I can't get a good stroke that way,
Next time i will ask about getting rid of my chicken wing and doing the whole Funky chicken dance on tough shots.


Thank You
Bob. M

You gave a big clue by saying that you have a chicken wing problem. Your stance is off and this is a tough fix because fixing it will involve a whole new set of feels in your setup. You're probably stepping into your shot with the middle of your torso (because that's where your head is) and then bringing your shooting arm in afterwards.

It's a common mistake made by players who are learning. Yes, of course you have to look at the shot standing up with both eyes, but as you begin your approach, you have to focus on getting your arm in place and then positioning your body correctly in relation to your arm. Right now you're doing it in the opposite order by placing your body down first, then bringing your arm in line. Your body is crowding the shot line, so your arm can easily wind up off-line.

I think if you fix your chicken wing problem, you will fix your stroke issue. It's a tough fix, and because the right way feels completely different, you may feel like it's not worth it. IT IS WORTH IT. DON'T GIVE UP. Do some research. Get some help. Persevere, and you will be happy with the result.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First thing I would check is the alignment of the cue, vertical cueing arm and bridge on the target line. Of course the head must be over the target line. If the cueing shoulder and upper arm arm are over the cue, and the forearm is vertical, the cue should run in a straight line. Keep the grip hand thumb vertical. The grip should open and close at the back as the cue goes back and forward. If you simply let the hand open and maintain very light contact, it keeps the cue from deviating. You are not to constrain the cue, simply allowing your hand to flex open with the backswing and reclose moving forward. The elbow opens then closes propelling the cue. That cue action is just an unhurried open>close. I would say that grip is the wrong word for the hand. Describing the hand as simply holding the cue conveys its passive role but is also inaccurate. The cueing hand responds to the elbow action. If the cue was originally aligned the hand keeps wobble from entering the equation.

I assume a right handed player. The description you have of the cue "steering left" could be an alignment issue. If the digicue is sensing a lateral move it may be a subconscious response to the bridge being slightly too far left on the shots in question. The bridge being even a little left of the line made by the upper arm, shoulder and vertical forearm wil cause the tip to move slightly left as it moves forward. The subconscious, if compensating will either curl to the left or tip the forearm away from the vertical and tilt to to the inside to correct the skewed cue travel.

Not even one word about the chicken wing problem? You never even mentioned the relationship between the chicken wing and stance of the player? How can you ignore that and still give advice?? I'll tell you how. You're not paying attention to the clues the OP is giving. You're not helping the individual player, you're reciting something you know in your head. You were triggered by something --- cue off line --- and then you went into your lecture.

See what I just explained to you? That's what a real teacher does. A real teacher tries to understand the player who is asking for help. It's about the player, not about you and what you know.

Maybe you should start by using your real name so you can take responsibility for your words. People who post under their real names think more carefully before they write.
 
Last edited:

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm wondering the same thing. That's why I like it when players who post use their real names so they can take responsibility for what they say. That whole grip open-close thing is totally unnecessary. I've seen some players do it but it's more like a quirk than it is an actual fundamental. Good fundamentals have logic behind them. What's the logic behind opening and closing your grip hand --- in response to the elbow moving? Seriously? Then that person must also be encouraging the player to clamp down with the thumb and index finger as well. Bad advice.

Your right, you don't have to do it, but there is a reason for it, pretty good one in fact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKOy9gWj0nk
 

Ironhead1970

Registered
No I shoot left handed a friend just told me to try moving my slightly to the right which makes sense I have a hard time finding center cue ball can you say unexpected English I do a lot of straight in drills and do the a straight lag a few times shot back to my cuetip before I play a match.
 

Knels

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You gave a big clue by saying that you have a chicken wing problem. Your stance is off and this is a tough fix because fixing it will involve a whole new set of feels in your setup. You're probably stepping into your shot with the middle of your torso (because that's where your head is) and then bringing your shooting arm in afterwards.

It's a common mistake made by players who are learning. Yes, of course you have to look at the shot standing up with both eyes, but as you begin your approach, you have to focus on getting your arm in place and then positioning your body correctly in relation to your arm. Right now you're doing it in the opposite order by placing your body down first, then bringing your arm in line. Your body is crowding the shot line, so your arm can easily wind up off-line.

I think if you fix your chicken wing problem, you will fix your stroke issue. It's a tough fix, and because the right way feels completely different, you may feel like it's not worth it. IT IS WORTH IT. DON'T GIVE UP. Do some research. Get some help. Persevere, and you will be happy with the result.

Great advice, thx ! I’ve had the same problem from time to time.
 

Imac007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would suggest trying to shoot some balls, square to the table, one handed. Putting the cue on rail and the cue ball a comfortable distance away trains you how to align to get the cue running straight. Once you get it running in a line, figure out how to add the bridge, without changing the cueing arm/hand alignment.

Any method that puts the cue through the ball straight at contact theoretically works. The question is how often it works. The digicue gives you feedback. You already know you need to address the alignment issue. Your real problem is where to start.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Why don't you tell me what it is instead of sending me to watch TV?



Regardless of Barry’s ideas I haven’t the time to sit and listen but here’s a quick dictation of what happens....I need to stretch from under this glorious example of fine German shitterneering.


depending on grip the farther back in the hand the fingers are wrapped it reduces the effective backswing length accordingly due to the cues ability to pivot in our back hand.

You can’t really pull any farther back unless you effectively lengthen such action by raising the back hand up......which will be effectively seen in full hand grippers as an extreme piston stroke such as Mike Davis.

There’s timing links in there that I, hillbilly,Shane and others use for those big breaks that include the big drop in with power generated from the hips not unlike fast pitch softball.

Other than that if the back hand is not tight the fulcrum of the cue will open the hand somewhat on its pinkie index and middle if one pulls pretty much past their back foot in a text book style stance generally speaking.

I’ve spoken about the grip many times and even brought up these facts....the board hasn’t picked much of my brains on it...the few that have have been spreading little bits of info here and there....it’s a great subject with many underlying components






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No I shoot left handed a friend just told me to try moving my slightly to the right which makes sense I have a hard time finding center cue ball can you say unexpected English I do a lot of straight in drills and do the a straight lag a few times shot back to my cuetip before I play a match.

Your friend is correct, but it starts with your approach. Once you set yourself down, it's hard to adjust your stance much. You need to prepare for a stance more to the right before you take your first step into your approach.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why don't you tell me what it is instead of sending me to watch TV?

The short version is it helps maintain a level cue and probably more important it helps in limiting shoulder and upper arm muscles in the stroke process. The long version (with examples and demonstration, which may be more helpful to some) is in the video.
It's also by a well regarded instructor/coach whereas I'm not.
Not to mention, less typing, which I suck at.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
99% of "tip steering" happens because of gripping the cue too tightly. Get a video analysis done of your stroke process, with special attention to your grip hand as you move from the backswing to the forward accelerated stroke.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The short version is it helps maintain a level cue and probably more important it helps in limiting shoulder and upper arm muscles in the stroke process. The long version (with examples and demonstration, which may be more helpful to some) is in the video.
It's also by a well regarded instructor/coach whereas I'm not.
Not to mention, less typing, which I suck at.

It's wrong. If you want to maintain a level cue, you have to roll your wrist from front to back, regardless of whether or not you open and close your hand. It's not only pool players who recommend things for no apparent reason. There are players in all disciplines who pass things along without fully understanding them.

The open and close is a useless waste of time. That is not to be confused with the release and grab technique used to bring more power to the shot.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's wrong. If you want to maintain a level cue, you have to roll your wrist from front to back, regardless of whether or not you open and close your hand. It's not only pool players who recommend things for no apparent reason. There are players in all disciplines who pass things along without fully understanding them.

The open and close is a useless waste of time. That is not to be confused with the release and grab technique used to bring more power to the shot.

If you watch the video you'll see that he maintains a perfectly level cue throughout the stroke without rolling his wrist at all. Barry Stark is not just some player here, he's one of the premier snooker coaches in the world.
I myself have noticed over the years that players who have that up and down motion in their stroke invariably grip the cue with the full hand throughout the stroke.
I guess people can make up their own mind but I think I'll go with Barry on this one.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you watch the video you'll see that he maintains a perfectly level cue throughout the stroke without rolling his wrist at all. Barry Stark is not just some player here, he's one of the premier snooker coaches in the world.
I myself have noticed over the years that players who have that up and down motion in their stroke invariably grip the cue with the full hand throughout the stroke.
I guess people can make up their own mind but I think I'll go with Barry on this one.

Of course he's rolling his wrist. Maybe you can't see it but it's clear to me. It's not even as level as it could be. He can even roll it more if he wants. You can maintain a full grip throughout the stroke. It's about pressure points and allowing the pressure points to change as the cue moves forward. You don't have to release your grip.

In fact: You can lighten the pressure on your first two fingers from start to finish and the pressure changes only very slightly as the cue moves forward because it's mainly on the back to begin with. This is not at all the way snooker players play but it's the way a whole lot of rotation players play, including myself. The pinkie on the cue acts as an important anchor in stroking straight, particularly with the big shots. By straight I mean straight, not always level, although you can stroke level as well if you want to with the wrist roll.
 
Last edited:

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of course he's rolling his wrist. Maybe you can't see it but it's clear to me. It's not even as level as it could be. He can even roll it more if he wants. You can maintain a full grip throughout the stroke. It's about pressure points and allowing the pressure points to change as the cue moves forward. You don't have to release your grip.

In fact: You can lighten the pressure on your first two fingers from start to finish and the pressure changes only very slightly as the cue moves forward because it's mainly on the back to begin with. This is not at all the way snooker players play but it's the way a whole lot of rotation players play, including myself. The pinkie on the cue acts as an important anchor in stroking straight, particularly with the big shots. By straight I mean straight, not always level, although you can stroke level as well if you want to with the wrist roll.

Maybe we can get some feedback from others who watched the video because I just watched it again and @ about 4:20 he takes a few shots and what I saw is a perfectly level cue throughout the entire stroke and virtually no wrist movement.
As far as "releasing" the grip goes he makes it very clear right at the beginning that there is no release involved.
In my 1st post, in addition to the level cue part, I stated "probably more important it helps to limit shoulder and upper arm involvement in the stroke process" which is extremely important.
It's all about reducing mass. When you reduce mass you can maintain velocity with less force. That is very desirable and the grip advocated helps reduce mass.
I'm not an instructor so it's just my opinion, as I said, people can watch the video and decide for themselves.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe we can get some feedback from others who watched the video because I just watched it again and @ about 4:20 he takes a few shots and what I saw is a perfectly level cue throughout the entire stroke and virtually no wrist movement.
As far as "releasing" the grip goes he makes it very clear right at the beginning that there is no release involved.
In my 1st post, in addition to the level cue part, I stated "probably more important it helps to limit shoulder and upper arm involvement in the stroke process" which is extremely important.
It's all about reducing mass. When you reduce mass you can maintain velocity with less force. That is very desirable and the grip advocated helps reduce mass.
I'm not an instructor so it's just my opinion, as I said, people can watch the video and decide for themselves.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore about things that are proven facts. Rather than sit at your computer and debate, get on a table and experiment like I did for years and years.

But I do stand corrected on the word 'release' that I used. I meant it as releasing the back part of his grip. It's obvious that this type of grip is about clamping down with the front couple of fingers and releasing the last couple in an open-close motion. That's what we've been discussing all along.

Feel free to have the last word. I'm done.
 
Top