The crouching stance

JC

JC

Coos Cues
Scott Lee said:
John...Yep, and I'm the guy in the blue shirt. There was nothing wrong with your stance back then, and there's nothing wrong with changing your stance, as you have now. Now...how you step into the shot line may be different, and that can have a great effect on accuracy in delivering the cue into the straight line that your brain and eyes "see".

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Hey Scott,

Hope you're doing great these days. As you know, pool is a game you can play until a very old age if you keep some basic physical function.

A crouching stance is ok when you are young and strong but it takes a toll with age. And it affects everything else. All things considered I now believe this is a compelling reason to change to a more sustainable stance as soon as possible. I am stepping into my shot exactly the same and have changed nothing else from my pre shot routine. Spongy leg muscles are just not a solid foundation.

Something to think about or maybe even mention to your crouchers and let them decide,

Take care
 
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B

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dr. Dave said:
"The "textbook" pool stance (especially the "old school" textbook stance for short people, with the head well above the cue) is definitely not for everybody. There is nothing wrong with an athletic crouching stance, especially if it is stable and helps a player get their head low with their vision center properly aligned. For more info, see the following video:

NV J.21 – How to Find the Perfect Pool/Snooker/Billiards Stance

and the stance advice resource page."

Saying that there is nothing wrong with a crouching athletic stance seems too definitive. I suppose we could all say that any comfortable stance is fine but do we really know at this point in time that this is true? I don't think that we do. Actually, if we just racked and stacked the best cueists in the world, I think we may just find that there's enough of a correlation between great cueing and a rigid physical approach, including a locked knee, that we should at least consider that certain approaches may be better than others.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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JC said:
... pool is a game you can play until a very old age if you keep some basic physical function.

A crouching stance is ok when you are young and strong but it takes a toll with age. And it affects everything else. All things considered I now believe this is a compelling reason to change to a more sustainable stance as soon as possible. I am stepping into my shot exactly the same and have changed nothing else from my pre shot routine. Spongy leg muscles are just not a solid foundation.

Something to think about or maybe even mention to your crouchers and let them decide ...
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There are a lot of things that change as we get older, and we must make adjustments (and accept limitations) as necessary.

I'm a deep-bend croucher at age 54, and I plan to do so as long as I can (at least into my 70s or 80s) because it allows me to get my head low with no neck, back, or hamstring discomfort. Having the head as low as possible has advantages:

advantages of a low stance

If the day comes when the crouch becomes too tiring, I'll probably just crouch less and accept a higher head position. And some day I might decide to lock both legs and stand completely upright. The stance must evolve with physical capabilities.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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BasementDweller said:
Dr. Dave said:
"The "textbook" pool stance (especially the "old school" textbook stance for short people, with the head well above the cue) is definitely not for everybody. There is nothing wrong with an athletic crouching stance, especially if it is stable and helps a player get their head low with their vision center properly aligned. For more info, see the following video:

NV J.21 – How to Find the Perfect Pool/Snooker/Billiards Stance

and the stance advice resource page."

Saying that there is nothing wrong with a crouching athletic stance seems too definitive. I suppose we could all say that any comfortable stance is fine but do we really know at this point in time that this is true? I don't think that we do. Actually, if we just racked and stacked the best cueists in the world, I think we may just find that there's enough of a correlation between great cueing and a rigid physical approach, including a locked knee, that we should at least consider that certain approaches may be better than others.
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I probably should have instead said: In general, there is nothing wrong with an athletic crouching stance. Obviously, if somebody is not stable in a crouching stance, then there is something wrong.

When I compare my crouching stance to my one-locked-knee and two-locked-knee stances, my athletic crouching stance actually feels more stable. Obviously, regardless of the stance type, it is important to keep the body still during the stroke.

Regards,
Dave
 
S

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JC said:
Here are a couple of good amateurs from my area that are both as tall as you are.

Notice one manages a straight leg stance and the other crouches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCsKlGuTkZY

JC
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Yes, those fellows seem to be definitely close to my height. It also looks to me the guy with a locked back leg seems to be more relaxed in his stance but he is also younger then his opponent.
Among top players who are fairly tall are Ruslan Chinakhov and Eklent Kaci. Kaci plays in more or less snooker stance. Ruslan has some piramid experience at the very beginning. He used to play and from time to time he still plays with a locked back leg but he may have his back leg slightly bend too. As I said the most important thing is to be as much relaxed as possible and having zero body movement while shooting.
Watch this amazing century Kaci performed playing in a rhythm I have never see him at the pool table:shocked:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j9LJkHp7l_4
 
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RailBanger

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From Winning Pocket Billiards by Willie Mosconi:

mqhlN81.png


From Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards:

XWZK1fN.png
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i have a snooker stance but wish i had a crouching stance. back and neck problems (neither caused by pool). i can't unlearn the snooker stance it seems
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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RailBanger said:
From Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards:

XWZK1fN.png
Click to expand...
I like the quote from Byrne except for the "one eye over the cue" part. That applies only to people who have an extremely dominant eye or bad or no vision in their other eye. The head should instead be in the vision center position. For most people, this is with the cue between both eyes (often, but not always, centered).

Regards,
Dave
 
RailBanger

RailBanger

Registered
dr_dave said:
I like the quote from Byrne except for the "one eye over the cue" part. That applies only to people who have an extremely dominant eye or bad or no vision in their other eye. The head should instead be in the vision center position. For most people, this is with the cue between both eyes (often, but not always, centered).

Regards,
Dave
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Thank you for the clarification! I was a bit discouraged by the text because I make no special effort to cue under one eye.
 
SmoothStroke

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
RailBanger said:
From Winning Pocket Billiards by Willie Mosconi:

mqhlN81.png


From Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards:

XWZK1fN.png
Click to expand...

Whatever fees right? It feels right to drive 150 mph in a school zone so it must be ok, it just feels right.

There is no correct way to stand? I must agree, but crouching or sitting in your stance is the worst choice for body position.
 
P

parogen

Registered
JC said:
Earl has a crouching stance so I always figured it was probably ok, just a matter of preference. Never really gave it too much weight until I now know what I didn't.
JC
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Yep, I was going to counter example with Earl. I think you have new found consistency simply due to the fact that you removed your rear knee joint out of your equation. There is no secret method to a stance, as long as you can keep your cue and shooting arm swinging on the aim line. If you were 10 feet tall, you would necessarily have to crouch, but since the pool table was designed for a certain height in mind, with the average waist height probably at a delta of less than 1 foot or so, some will crouch, others will keep their head higher, or bend to keep their head lower.
 
JC

JC

Coos Cues
My new stance

Here is what I look like now.

Head position still high as always.

It's feeling natural and very comfortable after just a few weeks.

I beat the 9 ball ghost today for the first time I can recall in many years.

If I can change after 50 years anyone can. I thought crouching was my only way.

https://youtu.be/eCeMRfFcqrY
 
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Pete

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JC said:
Well if you see them crouching IMO you should make them change that before you move to the next thing. Or part ways friends.

Sorry no one put it to me like that a long time ago. I'm not talking about a foot or a hand I'm talking about the foundation everything else starts from.

I'm not trying to be like the annoying guy who just found the lord but.....Yes I finally met the pool lord after years and years in the wilderness. Now I'm going to tell the world. And those who already knew will just smile and nod.

I hope you consider what I'm saying and it's importance as an instructor privately at least. In reality you probably don't see that many crouchers so even with all your experience having never crouched yourself you may not realize how detrimental it is but I'm here to tell you!

Earl Strickland has both knees bent and is one of the best Cueists that ever lived. (tried to upload pic but didn't work)
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JC

JC

Coos Cues
Pete said:
JC said:
Well if you see them crouching IMO you should make them change that before you move to the next thing. Or part ways friends.

Sorry no one put it to me like that a long time ago. I'm not talking about a foot or a hand I'm talking about the foundation everything else starts from.

I'm not trying to be like the annoying guy who just found the lord but.....Yes I finally met the pool lord after years and years in the wilderness. Now I'm going to tell the world. And those who already knew will just smile and nod.

I hope you consider what I'm saying and it's importance as an instructor privately at least. In reality you probably don't see that many crouchers so even with all your experience having never crouched yourself you may not realize how detrimental it is but I'm here to tell you!

Earl Strickland has both knees bent and is one of the best Cueists that ever lived. (tried to upload pic but didn't work)
Click to expand...

I mentioned Earl as my inspiration that it's ok to stand like that earlier. He's almost as old as I am now and guess what? It appears to be taking a toll on him as well.
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Pete

Pete

AzB Silver Member
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JC said:
Pete said:
I mentioned Earl as my inspiration that it's ok to stand like that earlier. He's almost as old as I am now and guess what? It appears to be taking a toll on him as well.

JC
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He's done that since the 90s I think (old ESPN footage).

I personally use a stance similar to Joe Davis and Willie Mosconi. But if your quads are strong, and you can consistently bend your knees to the same degree it might be ok. Just think it's easier (personally) to bend at the waist, but that for me.
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JC

JC

Coos Cues
Just reporting back on my changes.

Had my strongest showing in two decades at the Western BCA 9 ball championships last month, 7th/8th in the platinum division and my fargo has busted 600 for the first time and the only change was my stance. At no time did I feel fatigued during my matches as I have in the past.

I am also torching my usual sparring partner here in town who is a 617 fargo the last couple of months. I've come out on top of 7 of the last 8 cheap sets we've played over a couple sessions and it hasn't generally been close. He is not used to this. It's so bad he's looking for new instruction now.:smile:

After several months I no longer even think about my stance.

Unless you're super tall or injured now is the time to stop crouching. It's easier than you think and the long term dividends are substantial.
 
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