Low deflection / Low squirt shaft comparison

Eagleshot

Mark Nanashee
Silver Member
Myself and several others on this forum have been looking for reliable information on ld shaft characteristics. My hope is this thread might be a source for us to keep updated. I would like to use a 1-10 scale in describing only the deflection or squirt characteristics of particular shafts.

10 being high deflection, 1 being minimal deflection.

Hopefully we can list as many shafts as possible and use this thread as a reference.

The best relatively objective testing I am aware of would be pivot based stop shot with side spin. If someone knows a better method without robot testing please let me know.

*****This should not turn into a shaft bashing thread. High or low squirt / deflection does not mean good or bad shafts. This is only an attempt at helping those interested find the shafts most suited to the individual searching.

I will begin with shafts I am recently familiar with and we can adjust and update as needed.

1 = minimal squirt / deflection. 10 = high squirt / deflection

These #'s are subjective but with enough input we can give a fairly accurate comparison.

Scale # - Brand - Model - Diameter - Pivot point"

1.5 - Custom - Patrick Johnson 10mm - 20
4.0 - OB - 2+ 11.75mm - ?
4.5 - OB - Pro + 11.75mm - ?
4.5 - Predator - Z-3 11.75mm - ?
4.5 - Mezz - WX 900 12mm. - ?
5.0 - Tiger - X Pro 11.75mm - ?
5.0 - Predator - Z2 11.75mm - 14
5.0 - Mezz - Ex Pro 12.5mm - ?
5.0 - Mezz - Hybrid Pro II 12.5mm - ?
5.5 - Predator - 314-3 12.75mm - ?
5.5 - OB - Classic + 12.75mm - 13.25
5.8 - Dan Decola - Regular Shaft custom taper 12.25mm - 13.50
6.0 - Jacoby - Hybrid Edge 12.5mm - 12.75
6.0 - Predator - 314-2 12.75mm - 12.5
6.0 - Mezz - WD700 12.5mm - 12.5
6.5 - Players - HXT 12.75mm - 11.5
7.0 - Mezz - Hybrid Alpha 12.8mm - ?
9.0 - Tiger - Ultra X LD 12.75mm - 8
9.5 - Prather - 13mm reg. shaft - 7

**** the "?" For pivot point means we do not have the data, the shaft is listed based on best guess. We can update when data comes in.
 
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Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nice thread.
I play normal deflection shaft but seek lower deflection shaft but not LOW like predator or OB. That 6.0 could be it... :)
I also have Z2 but only play Snooker with it.

Edit. Btw what would be distance between cue ball and object ball when testing with pivoting stop shot. You could make diagram ball positions so we get similar results.
 
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336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
LD Deflection/Squirt

Myself and several others on this forum have been looking for reliable information on ld shaft characteristics. My hope is this thread might be a source for us to keep updated. I would like to use a 1-10 scale in describing only the deflection or squirt characteristics of particular shafts.

10 being high deflection, 1 being minimal deflection.

Hopefully we can list as many shafts as possible and use this thread as a reference.

The best relatively objective testing I am aware of would be pivot based stop shot with side spin. If someone knows a better method without robot testing please let me know.

*****This should not turn into a shaft bashing thread. High or low squirt / deflection does not mean good or bad shafts. This is only an attempt at helping those interested find the shafts most suited to the individual searching.

I will begin with shafts I am recently familiar with and we can adjust and update as needed.

1 = minimal squirt / deflection. 10 = high squirt / deflection

These #'s are subjective but with enough input we can give a fairly accurate comparison.

Scale # - Brand - Model


3.0 - Predator - Z2
3.4 - Jacoby - Hybrid Edge
3.5 - Predator - 314-2
3.5 - Mezz - WD700
3.7 - Players - HXT (reg. not skinny)
6.0 - Tiger - Ultra X LD
8.0 - Prather - 13mm reg. shaft

I am well aware of the fact that I may have just wasted a half hour but I feel this could be very helpful if done correctly.

Im writing a book on squirt or deflection as you will and have the following observation on LDs.

LD shafts squirt so little that an actual measurement of the squirt is really useless in a players game. For me its more about the quality of the hit and how you connect with it.

Example....lets say you shoot all shots at a 7 diamond distance from the bottom rail and

LDshaft1 squirts the ball at exactly 1.56 inches
LDshaft2.....1.45 inches

1.56 - 1.45=.11 of an inch.....a little more than 1/10 of an inch

Well you are shooting a shot with English and trying so while spinning the cue ball at distances where you obviously feel you have a good chance of making the shot so likely from 2 to 4 diamonds of distance separation of the cue ball and object ball.

Now how do those small differences cataloged over the 7 diamond distance really matter when noted on a lesser shot?

Your allowance is so small that you barely have to plan for it with most LD shafts and that is why a lot of the cue makers are making their own brands. It gives them another product to sell and they can develop their own customized hit with their product.

My summation so far is that LD shafts are easier to use when applying spin but not as easy to apply masse with and this is not so much of a disadvantage.
 

future757

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It would be great if we had 100% accurate and reliable results for this but unfortunately it's impossible to scientifically/experimentally test this without a robot. There are too many variables including players' differences in opinions/perceived rating on the amount of deflection, different tips, different butts, and even different hits/strokes from the same player. However without a robot this is the best we can do so continue on!
 

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
Myself and several others on this forum have been looking for reliable information on ld shaft characteristics. My hope is this thread might be a source for us to keep updated. I would like to use a 1-10 scale in describing only the deflection or squirt characteristics of particular shafts.

10 being high deflection, 1 being minimal deflection.

Hopefully we can list as many shafts as possible and use this thread as a reference.

The best relatively objective testing I am aware of would be pivot based stop shot with side spin. If someone knows a better method without robot testing please let me know.

*****This should not turn into a shaft bashing thread. High or low squirt / deflection does not mean good or bad shafts. This is only an attempt at helping those interested find the shafts most suited to the individual searching.

I will begin with shafts I am recently familiar with and we can adjust and update as needed.

1 = minimal squirt / deflection. 10 = high squirt / deflection

These #'s are subjective but with enough input we can give a fairly accurate comparison.

Scale # - Brand - Model


3.0 - Predator - Z2
3.4 - Jacoby - Hybrid Edge
3.5 - Predator - 314-2
3.5 - Mezz - WD700
3.7 - Players - HXT (reg. not skinny)
6.0 - Tiger - Ultra X LD
8.0 - Prather - 13mm reg. shaft

I am well aware of the fact that I may have just wasted a half hour but I feel this could be very helpful if done correctly.

Ummmm with all the different numbers between 1 and 10 Why would you have 3.2 or 3.5 instead of even numbers? If it's a measurement and not an actual ranking I understand but if not...........
 

future757

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ummmm with all the different numbers between 1 and 10 Why would you have 3.2 or 3.5 instead of even numbers? If it's a measurement and not an actual ranking I understand but if not...........

I'm thinking they're averages of multiple ratings but not sure
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Less end mass

I don't believe this is true. What makes you think so?

pj
chgo

Less end mass, I admittedly havent done a lot of it with LD shafts all I can for suredly say at this point is the feel is definitely different and I dont seem to get the same results as I do with heavier shafts. I very much like the way they play shots so far. Even if there is some difference from what Ive experienced.....my guess is that this is going to be a lessening effect that one could surely get used to and compensate for without problems.

A friend of mine a really good player modified a LD to appear to have a normal ferrule and we played One Pocket and he didnt have any noticeable problems but he did say he felt the masse part of the game was less somewhat and different requiring a touch more stroke.

At any rate I would suspect that the difference will be minimal, possibly to the point of not being much of a consideration especially in light of the fact that shot are so much easier to make with spin.
 

xXGEARXx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Myself and several others on this forum have been looking for reliable information on ld shaft characteristics. My hope is this thread might be a source for us to keep updated. I would like to use a 1-10 scale in describing only the deflection or squirt characteristics of particular shafts.

10 being high deflection, 1 being minimal deflection.

Hopefully we can list as many shafts as possible and use this thread as a reference.

The best relatively objective testing I am aware of would be pivot based stop shot with side spin. If someone knows a better method without robot testing please let me know.

*****This should not turn into a shaft bashing thread. High or low squirt / deflection does not mean good or bad shafts. This is only an attempt at helping those interested find the shafts most suited to the individual searching.

I will begin with shafts I am recently familiar with and we can adjust and update as needed.

1 = minimal squirt / deflection. 10 = high squirt / deflection

These #'s are subjective but with enough input we can give a fairly accurate comparison.

Scale # - Brand - Model


3.0 - Predator - Z2
3.4 - Jacoby - Hybrid Edge
3.5 - Predator - 314-2
3.5 - Mezz - WD700
3.7 - Players - HXT (reg. not skinny)
6.0 - Tiger - Ultra X LD
8.0 - Prather - 13mm reg. shaft

I am well aware of the fact that I may have just wasted a half hour but I feel this could be very helpful if done correctly.
What about the new Meucci LD shaft-ultimate weapon? I was told she is pretty low deflection. I play with the Jacoby Edge Hybrid, so I'm glad to see it is what I thought it was-LOW. :)
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Dude, really?? You can't tell the difference? :/

I'm just guessing, but I think Patrick plays with a conical shaped shaft which is normally stiffer than a pro tapered shaft and the additional stiffness might lend itself to masse.

Peculiarly enough, my cue has a LD shaft, a long pro taper, is very stiff and I can masse quite well with it.

JoeyA
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
make a note...

I'm just guessing, but I think Patrick plays with a conical shaped shaft which is normally stiffer than a pro tapered shaft and the additional stiffness might lend itself to masse.

Peculiarly enough, my cue has a LD shaft, a long pro taper, is very stiff and I can masse quite well with it.

JoeyA

I will have to make a note of that, the conical taper. The last LD I played with was a Jacoby, appeared to be 12.75 and played plenty stiff and damn dependable.
 

Eagleshot

Mark Nanashee
Silver Member
To answer a few questions....

The initial rating numbers are my own subjective opinion of shafts I am personally familiar.

- the more input we have from players, the "closer" to accurate the results will be.

The bridge length, for testing purposes, will vary depending upon the squirt / deflection characteristics of the shaft.

- please review Dr. Dave's Deflection and backhand English sections. He has videos which will demonstrate.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Myself and several others on this forum have been looking for reliable information on ld shaft characteristics. My hope is this thread might be a source for us to keep updated. I would like to use a 1-10 scale in describing only the deflection or squirt characteristics of particular shafts.

10 being high deflection, 1 being minimal deflection.

Hopefully we can list as many shafts as possible and use this thread as a reference.

The best relatively objective testing I am aware of would be pivot based stop shot with side spin. If someone knows a better method without robot testing please let me know.

*****This should not turn into a shaft bashing thread. High or low squirt / deflection does not mean good or bad shafts. This is only an attempt at helping those interested find the shafts most suited to the individual searching.

I will begin with shafts I am recently familiar with and we can adjust and update as needed.

1 = minimal squirt / deflection. 10 = high squirt / deflection

These #'s are subjective but with enough input we can give a fairly accurate comparison.

Scale # - Brand - Model


3.0 - Predator - Z2
3.4 - Jacoby - Hybrid Edge
3.5 - Predator - 314-2
3.5 - Mezz - WD700
3.7 - Players - HXT (reg. not skinny)
6.0 - Tiger - Ultra X LD
8.0 - Prather - 13mm reg. shaft

I am well aware of the fact that I may have just wasted a half hour but I feel this could be very helpful if done correctly.
If we're just measuring squirt, then the OB Pro+ is the lowest I've tested so far, and it would be I guess a 2.0 on your scale?

The squirt is so low that when you sum up with throw, your overall "effective squirt" is negative, even with clean, polished balls.

Freddie
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I will have to make a note of that, the conical taper. The last LD I played with was a Jacoby, appeared to be 12.75 and played plenty stiff and damn dependable.

I find half-masse' shots to be very much easier with low squirt shaft, regardless of taper.

However, full masse' shots might not be so easy due to trapping the ball instead of letting the cueball and shaft get out of each other's way.

Freddie
 

Eagleshot

Mark Nanashee
Silver Member
2.0 is extremely low on the current scale. As the scale is now a 2.0 would have somewhere near a 14" - 15" bridge length

I'll add it but it but would feel better at 2.5 for now until we have multiple rating reviews.

Thanks for the input.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
2.0 is extremely low on the current scale. As the scale is now a 2.0 would have somewhere near a 14" - 15" bridge length

I'll add it but it but would feel better at 2.5 for now until we have multiple rating reviews.

Thanks for the input.

And the OB 2+ might even be lower, but I didn't hit with it.

Why wouldn't we just use pivot points?
 

Eagleshot

Mark Nanashee
Silver Member
I thought of using pivot point as Platinum Billiards did in their testing. But I felt newer forum members or those unfamiliar with BHE would have a difficult time grasping the concept.

But no reason we couldn't add the pivot point.
 
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