does the coach have to be a champion? i think not

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lou
you have made it clear you only want to take a lesson from a champion whose accomplishments are in the books
and thats ok
so i wouldnt expect you to take or want to take a lesson from robin dreyer
but dont put down robin dryer because he never won a pool authority sanctioned major championship since you never met him or taken a lesson from him so there is no way for you to know what he does or doesnt know or what he can do on a pool table
have a nice day....


I'm not putting him down, I'm saying I see no reason to take a lesson from him.

And I did not say I was expecting to see video of him winning anything. What I said was that there was no video of him at any event playing. At least if you could see him stroking a ball there would be some way to gauge his capabilities.

Lou Figueroa
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
What the heck type of response was that, how did you transpose to that, from what we were discussing exactly? I don't agree with your point so you resort to "Neither one of you have, anything else, you're guessing" ? Seriously?!??

Anyways, please explain how in the world you know who I have or have not seen??? Sounds like you're the one guessing bud

I don't understand your point. If you've seen RD play, let us know. All I wrote was that neither one of you have seen him play, like I have. If you don't think he can play, you would have to be guessing (because you have not seen it and wrong). I don't see the misunderstanding there.
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lou
i heard thru the grapevine that you went to freddy "the beard" bentivegna's house for a lesson and i guess didnt think you got your moneys worth and refused or didnt pay him
.if thats true i guess you didnt think freddy was worth "a plugged nickel" either.
any truth to this rumor?
.........
rest in peace freddy.
thank you for your knowledge that you shared
bank on brother..:thumbup:


I took a lesson from Freddy.

I paid him. As I recall, he said he did a four hour minimum lesson and I told him up front, before I traveled, that I would only have time for three hours and would pay accordingly. At the end of the three hour lesson he wanted to be paid for four hours and I reminded him of our conversation, paid for three hours, and that was that. I didn't tip him $50 either, as I usually do for a good lesson. The one thing you are correct on is that it did not go well. I do not like to speak ill of the dead, and that's why I don't mention taking a lesson from him, end of story.

Lou Figueroa
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't understand your point. If you've seen RD play, let us know. All I wrote was that neither one of you have seen him play, like I have. If you don't think he can play, you would have to be guessing (because you have not seen it and wrong). I don't see the misunderstanding there.

My point being, how do you know who I have seen or haven't seen, do you know me personally or something?? You saying I am guessing, while you guess if I have or have not seen someone :thumbup:
How can you not understand the irony in your statement is beyond me, carry on bud
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
My point being, how do you know who I have seen or haven't seen, do you know me personally or something?? You saying I am guessing, while you guess if I have or have not seen someone :thumbup:
How can you not understand the irony in your statement is beyond me, carry on bud

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you have not seen him play. Otherwise you would not be writing this way. Gees, are we sensitive here?
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lowenstein
they wont let me send you another greenie but your instincts are spot on correct .
robin is not just a good but a great coach
:thumbup:
robin on a table can do amazing things even tho he now has some physical impairments that preclude him from really being able to compete yet he can demonstrate what he has to during a lesson
---------------
 
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bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I took a lesson from Freddy.

I paid him. As I recall, he said he did a four hour minimum lesson and I told him up front, before I traveled, that I would only have time for three hours and would pay accordingly. At the end of the three hour lesson he wanted to be paid for four hours and I reminded him of our conversation, paid for three hours, and that was that. I didn't tip him $50 either, as I usually do for a good lesson. The one thing you are correct on is that it did not go well. I do not like to speak ill of the dead, and that's why I don't mention taking a lesson from him, end of story.

Lou Figueroa

lou
i respect you for your respect of the ones who have passed.
i am sorry i brought it up
larry
 
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Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you have not seen him play. Otherwise you would not be writing this way. Gees, are we sensitive here?

The initial post by BBB made no mention of RD, when you addressed me, we also were not specifically talking about RD, we were speaking about golf. I never once mentioned any professional pool coach by name, never referred to anyone specific, unless he can't pot three balls in a row.

But upon me not agreeing with your analogy about golf, you resort to referencing that you know him and that I don't, sounding like a little child.

You previously said "I've seen him play. Neither one of you have, anything else, you're guessing. So let's leave it like that."

Then you said of yourself ", but I'm guessing you have not seen him play" Then, I have to point out the irony of your post that the only person guessing at anything is you!

Thank you for the laugh, I appreciate it.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If he's staying on that center ball axis and using speed for position most of the time. he's playing high percentage. And I like that kind of thinking.
That's one of the things I enjoy about using CTE. It's a center axis procedure most of the time.
The less I have to fool around with spin, the better I like things.
You might find the dogging in a video somewhat amusing. (just an FYI). Check your PM's.
in my first lesson with robin
one of the first things robin did was show me how little i needed to use english for position by just massaging the tangent line to get the right angle into and out of the rails
btw that video was priceless......:thumbup:
happy holidays...:)
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
well guys i guess we know now how you all feel about whether the coach has to be a champion
thanks for all the replies and happy holidays.....:thumbup:
 

noMoreSchon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
'If a teacher can't correct their own swing, then how can they correct mine? I have taken a ton of golf lessons, and I know club professionals often do negligent playing, but most can still shot in 70's or 80's after a few days of practice.[/QUOTE]

I think this is oversimplification. It takes a team to keep you from developing bad habits.

There is not a professional in any of today's games that coach themselves and are contenders in

their sport. If you teach yourself, you have an incompetent teacher and a jackass of a student.

Knowledge doesn't equate to superior play. Superior play doesn't equate to knowledge. It takes

a certain player/coach to bring them together and vocalize what you can be doing better

to be able to compete on a higher level.
 

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay to a certain point

I think once you reach a certain level, say where you can run 50-75 balls
playing straight pool you need an instructor that is or was a top player.
I would think that is the reason Lou went to Freddy, he was a very good
player and knew the mental part of the game and strategies associated
with playing under pressure at a high level. Lou did not need to learn the
fundamentals. Let's say you play a decent game, and decide you want to
start playing one pocket, will any instructor other than one that is or has
not been a top player help ? What about 14.1, and for that matter 8 ball.
jack
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think once you reach a certain level, say where you can run 50-75 balls
playing straight pool you need an instructor that is or was a top player.
I would think that is the reason Lou went to Freddy, he was a very good
player and knew the mental part of the game and strategies associated
with playing under pressure at a high level. Lou did not need to learn the
fundamentals. Let's say you play a decent game, and decide you want to
start playing one pocket, will any instructor other than one that is or has
not been a top player help ? What about 14.1, and for that matter 8 ball.
jack

My teacher used to be a very great player. But since he teaches a minimum of 8 hours every day, he can not keep his own stroke in competition. I think a teacher teaches constantly and a great player must keep his own play current. Can't do both.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
There are great players and there are great teachers. And every now and then there are great players that are also great teachers. But being a great player doesn't automatically make you a great teacher, because teaching and playing require two different skill sets.

As comparisons....Very few great math teachers can be labeled mathematical geniuses. The greatest English or literature teachers are typically not best-selling authors. And, flipped around the other way, you should never assume mathematical geniuses or Pulitzer prize winning authors would make great teachers. It just doesn't work that way.
 
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bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Robin Dreyer in Portland. robindreyer.com

ROBIN DREYER IS THE BEST INSTRUCTOR IN THE USA
jmho
i have had lessons with scott lee/mark wilson/lee brett/mark finkelstein
hunter lumbardo
if i couldnt go to robin
i would go to
hunter/mark finkelstein /lee
jmho
oh btw hunter /mark/lee can play and teach
robin COULD play but doesnt anymore
 
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SFC9ball

JimBaker PBIA Instructor
Silver Member
My thoughts

Here is some of my thoughts on this subject: Everyone that has posted on this subject has great points in what they believe and why. the one thing we can all take away from this is, it is a 1 size fits all type subject.

The U.S. billiards/pool scene is 40+ years behind other sports when it comes to coaching and teaching, we can now see the value in it and are making gains in how we approach teaching/coaching. We are experiencing growing pains as we move forward because we have people who believe in the " You cant be me you cant teach me" (I was once one of those players).

The Mosconi cup proved the above statement when Mark Wilson came on board as the coach, he approached the job very different than anybody before him and not all of the players bought into what he was trying to do, plus he had a different set of guidelines like funding ETC. then Rohan, ( I don't know all of the specifics so I will not speculate ) When Rohan came on board he had a different set of guidelines and had more freedom in team selection, boot camps and funding. The results speak for themselves.

Since taking my first professional lesson and a few years later becoming an Instructor I have learned that everyone is different in the way they learn, there body composition is different, intellect and a number of other things and as an instructor I need to find a way to deliver a quality product so the student understands what I am communicating to them and this can be very challenging at times.

I compete when I can and I train hard when I have the time, I have won some decent tournaments, placed in some regional events, I use the things that I have been taught and things I have learned and experienced in competition as teaching points in my instruction.

I can tell you that I don't play as well as I would like to because I work a 40hrs a week job, I coach/teach the Missouri S&T collegiate billiards team, I do cue repair in my area, and I have a family all of this takes up A LOT of time. All of this does have a huge affect on me being "Competition Ready" But I can tell you with 100% certainty that I practice what I preach and I will demonstrate everything I teach before a student tries it so they can see what is supposed to happen (sometimes it takes 2 tries :eek:)

The BCA instructors program (PBIA) is growing and getting better. I recommend to my students to seek out other instructors to get a different perspective, this helps the student grow and see things in a different way. Scott Lee did this with me and it was some of the best advise he gave me.

A student needs to find someone that is a good fit for them, they need to have confidence in that instructor because if they don't they are wasting money and time just going through the motions.

Sorry this was long winded. To the grammar police I say "I am a victim of the MI public school system and my own bad decisions" :eek:
 
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BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Here is some of my thoughts on this subject: Everyone that has posted on this subject has great points in what they believe and why. the one thing we can all take away from this is, it is a 1 size fits all type subject.

The U.S. billiards/pool scene is 40+ years behind other sports when it comes to coaching and teaching, we can now see the value in it and are making gains in how we approach teaching/coaching. We are experiencing growing pains as we move forward because we have people who believe in the " You cant be me you cant teach me" (I was once one of those players).

The Mosconi cup proved the above statement when Mark Wilson came on board as the coach, he approached the job very different than anybody before him and not all of the players bought into what he was trying to do, plus he had a different set of guidelines like funding ETC. then Rohan, ( I don't know all of the specifics so I will not speculate ) When Rohan came on board he had a different set of guidelines and had more freedom in team selection, boot camps and funding. The results speak for themselves.

Since taking my first professional lesson and a few years later becoming an Instructor I have learned that everyone is different in the way they learn, there body composition is different, intellect and a number of other things and as an instructor I need to find a way to deliver a quality product so the student understands what I am communicating to them and this can be very challenging at times.

I compete when I can and I train hard when I have the time, I have won some decent tournaments, placed in some regional events, I use the things that I have been taught and things I have learned and experienced in competition as teaching points in my instruction.

I can tell you that I don't play as well as I would like to because I work a 40hrs a week job, I coach/teach the Missouri S&T collegiate billiards team, I do cue repair in my area, and I have a family all of this takes up A LOT of time. All of this does have a huge affect on me being "Competition Ready" But I can tell you with 100% certainty that I practice what I preach and I will demonstrate everything I teach before a student tries it so they can see what is supposed to happen (sometimes it takes 2 tries :eek:)

The BCA instructors program (PBIA) is growing and getting better. I recommend to my students to seek out other instructors to get a different perspective, this helps the student grow and see things in a different way. Scott Lee did this with me and it was some of the best advise he gave me.

A student needs to find someone that is a good fit for them, they need to have confidence in that instructor because if they don't they are wasting money and time just going through the motions.

Sorry this was long winded. To the grammar police I say "I am a victim of the MI public school system and my own bad decisions" :eek:

I don't think you're long winded, I think you have a passion for the subject.

My benchmarks are simple as I wish to practice what I preach. I start with goals for a new student, when I meet a student wanting to go up two rankings in APA league, for example, I watch their play, then make corrections then tell them what to do and approximately how long it will take them to advance. Time = money.
 
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