Anyone know if Mosconi ever saw Efren play, and if so, .....

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you, Jay! That’s great insight, and that’s what makes you, Billy Incardona, Grady Matthews, John McHenry, DiLiberto(regardless of the criticism of today’s players), and Cornbread, Lou Figueroa, and Freddy the Beard, so valuable! I would listen to the insights and Road Stories from Gentlemen like you, the Road Players, and the Backers, like a Kid listening to his Dad or Grandad tell stories-completely Starstruck! I really appreciate your knowledge. Today’s Fans, in Pool and many other Sports, don’t want to give credit to the Greats that were so dominant, and paved the way. I know that the Balls and table conditions have changed, but that might mean that the older players were much better at some things! The older players and Backers told me, that if you put today’s players on 5x10’s, with slow cloth and Mud Balls, you’d find out that today’s players weren’t as good. They also didn’t like One-foul, Ball-In-hand Rotation Games, especially 9-Ball! We didn’t even play 8-ball with Ball-in-hand. Today, they Foul, by moving a Ball, and they want to put it back, and keep shooting!


Thanks for including with that crowd.

But I will be the first to admit that any credibility I have when it comes to the game of pool comes from being a student of the game, it’s history and lore. Guys like Jay and Freddy saw it all first hand.

Lou Figueroa
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
My recollection is that the issue was not the name.

After all, Fats never went anywhere near Minnesota. It was his assertion that Tevis had based the character, Minnesota Fats, on Mr. Wanderone. Fats cited numerous similarities between the character in the book and himself, to include a particular facial tick.

Tevis always denied the MF character was based on any actual player, though Mosconi did say the contrary in an interview.

Lou Figueroa

You're right there Lou. In his deposition, Fats said he was New York Fats, Ohio Fats and Minnesota Fats. He told them he was called Fats wherever he went, and I'm not sure if Walter didn't see him playing one time around Louisville, since Fats had a tick where he would jerk his head to the side for a second, and I think the character in the book did as well.

I knew Walter pretty well and he stated unequivocally that he made up the Minnesota Fats character. Same for Fast Eddie, a name that has been claimed by several people since the movie came out.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thank you, Jay! That’s great insight, and that’s what makes you, Billy Incardona, Grady Matthews, John McHenry, DiLiberto(regardless of the criticism of today’s players), and Cornbread, Lou Figueroa, and Freddy the Beard, so valuable! I would listen to the insights and Road Stories from Gentlemen like you, the Road Players, and the Backers, like a Kid listening to his Dad or Grandad tell stories-completely Starstruck! I really appreciate your knowledge. Today’s Fans, in Pool and many other Sports, don’t want to give credit to the Greats that were so dominant, and paved the way. I know that the Balls and table conditions have changed, but that might mean that the older players were much better at some things! The older players and Backers told me, that if you put today’s players on 5x10’s, with slow cloth and Mud Balls, you’d find out that today’s players weren’t as good. They also didn’t like One-foul, Ball-In-hand Rotation Games, especially 9-Ball! We didn’t even play 8-ball with Ball-in-hand. Today, they Foul, by moving a Ball, and they want to put it back, and keep shooting!

Thanks Ike, but I don't feel like anyone's grandpa (except for my own grand kids). I just feel like a guy who has hung around the pool racket for a very long time and had the good fortune to see some of the best and most interesting put in time on the cloth. :wink:
 

LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I appreciate and respect your modesty, Jay. People like yourself, and those mentioned along with you, in addition to Mr. Forsyth and Mark Wilson, are a credit and valuable resource to our community and Sport. It’s a shame that pool isn’t as highly-regarded as Tennis, Golf, Bowling, and Poker, and I feel that it takes every bit as much talent to Play Pool on a high level, as it does for these other Sports. Gambling is pointed to, as a bad part of Pool, along with the atmosphere in the Pool rooms. However, when I was Young, Women and Kids wouldn’t or couldn’t come into the Pool Rooms. Nowadays, you have Food, drinks, Cable, Darts, Leagues and Tounaments for Men/Women/Adults/Kids just like Bowling Alleys and Golf Clubhouses. There is also plenty of gambling going on at Golf Courses and Bowling establishments.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I appreciate and respect your modesty, Jay. People like yourself, and those mentioned along with you, in addition to Mr. Forsyth and Mark Wilson, are a credit and valuable resource to our community and Sport. It’s a shame that pool isn’t as highly-regarded as Tennis, Golf, Bowling, and Poker, and I feel that it takes every bit as much talent to Play Pool on a high level, as it does for these other Sports. Gambling is pointed to, as a bad part of Pool, along with the atmosphere in the Pool rooms. However, when I was Young, Women and Kids wouldn’t or couldn’t come into the Pool Rooms. Nowadays, you have Food, drinks, Cable, Darts, Leagues and Tounaments for Men/Women/Adults/Kids just like Bowling Alleys and Golf Clubhouses. There is also plenty of gambling going on at Golf Courses and Bowling establishments.

I don't worry about that stuff anymore and haven't for years. Pool is what it is and I like it with all it's warts and blemishes. I still like being in gambling dens, like the heart of Derby City and at the old Rack in Detroit and Johnston City days. All the old tournaments had backrooms with wide open gambling, and I loved every minute of it. The Ring Ten Ball games were some of my favorites, with all the top players jousting each other and talking a mile a minute.:rolleyes:
 

Runner

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Parica was the best rotation game player in the world for about two decades! NO ONE (including Buddy who ducked him) could beat him for the cash! Not Efren, not Earl, not Johnny, not anyone! Even when Mark Tadd was challenging the world to play, he excluded Parica from the challenge! I watched him turn Jose down for a game at the Bicycle Club in L.A. No one wanted any part of Jose back then. He was really the King of the Hill!

Agree 100% Jay! I remember Jose walking up to the top players, Buddy,
Miz, Johnny.. wanting to make a game, NO ONE wanted any of it! When I
think of strong gamble, Jose is the benchmark. Tadd wouldn't play Jose
even.. and Tadd was on fire there for a while!

And IMO, Ronnie will always be #1 for One Pocket.. you had to see it
to believe it. The knowledge Ronnie had, those unreal shots.. if Ronnie
had written a book on 1P it'd be The Bible.
 
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