The Removal Of The Design Your Dream Thread

WildWing · Sep 9, 2018

Jaden said:
No one's upset about the man retiring. Another one of this girlfriends trying to reverse shit around.

All this whole fiasco goes to show is that a lifetime of excellent cuemaking can all go to shit over one dishonorable decision.

His legacy is shit because he's not a man of his word. He proves it with every additional post.

The more that people like you continue to try and reverse shit and defend the indefensible, the more I'll continue to not let it go.

Jaden

You may have broken the record with the S word, but a bit of perspective might be in order. You may disagree; it's ok.

Most high end cue collectors, including those who like JossWest, have nothing to do with this forum. Many are international. A misguided contest and a couple threads on this forum means nothing to the high end collectors. A Josswest cue will still hold its value, if not increase, since Bill is retired. I know it's not what you want to hear, but, the truth.

There have been some other catastrophes with cuemakers, didn't deliver on time, didn't deliver at all, didn't answer at all, etc. If they're still in business, and have a name ending in "S," well, their cues probably are holding their value. It's easy to get over-cooked on this issue.

As for girlfriends, I'm not sure how you can tell the sex of posters, but we'll leave that be. As for collectors, they don't care about forums like this. They'll get a look at an available cue, whether at a show or online, and decide whether to buy. In the case of a JossWest, those cues won't lose value over these cyber-missives. Again, sorry to lend a bit of perspective, but truth has multiple sides.

All the best,
WW

pt109 · Sep 9, 2018

jimmyco said:
I took it to mean with well over 4800 views of this thread, plus the all those of the original closed thread, less than 125 people cared enough to vote, one way or the other.

As of this posting time...there are 173 non members view...and 23 guests.
...so the major part of those 4800 can’t vote.
Of the ones who did vote, less than 25% want the thread to disappear.

pt....budding statistician

crabbcatjohn · Sep 9, 2018

IMO the thread needed to disappear if only for the fact that a elderly man was being continually threatened with violence by the "good" people in this forum... Tell me what purpose did that serve and what would happen to the owners of this forum if a member would have acted out on a threat. At some point you have to wonder if it was worth it leaving it up and if there was any legal or moral liability involved.

lfigueroa · Sep 9, 2018

crabbcatjohn said:
IMO the thread needed to disappear if only for the fact that a elderly man was being continually threatened with violence by the "good" people in this forum... Tell me what purpose did that serve and what would happen to the owners of this forum if a member would have acted out on a threat. At some point you have to wonder if it was worth it leaving it up and if there was any legal or moral liability involved.

This post -- all by its lonesome -- makes the case for returning the thread.

I don't recall anyone threatening BS with violence. I also don't recall BS saying the cue was finished as DW pointed out. I also don't recall how much time passd between the start of the contest and when he called it off and when he got sick -- all pertinent info.

There's plenty of reasons for making it viewable, if not a thread we could still comment on.

Lou Figueroa

crabbcatjohn · Sep 9, 2018

lfigueroa said:
This post -- all by its lonesome -- makes the case for returning the thread.

I don't recall anyone threatening BS with violence. I also don't recall BS saying the cue was finished as DW pointed out. I also don't recall how much time passd between the start of the contest and when he called it off and when he got sick -- all pertinent info.

There's plenty of reasons for making it viewable, if not a thread we could still comment on.

Lou Figueroa

I guess you'll just have to take my word on it Lou. At the time i complained to the moderator about it. Only time I've ever went to a mod about anything. Even when Barton called me a racist and stalked me here and offline i didn't complain, but this one went to far.

pt109 · Sep 9, 2018

crabbcatjohn said:
IMO the thread needed to disappear if only for the fact that a elderly man was being continually threatened with violence by the "good" people in this forum... Tell me what purpose did that serve and what would happen to the owners of this forum if a member would have acted out on a threat. At some point you have to wonder if it was worth it leaving it up and if there was any legal or moral liability involved.

I don’t recall a threat to Stroud either....and I tend to read threads before I post.
....for the first time in all this posting, I now want to re-read the thread.

I recall other threats though....which I didn’t like....I’m with the moderators on that one...
....these are words on a screen that we all try to make sense out of....
....NOT challenges to duels.

crabbcatjohn · Sep 9, 2018

pt109 said:
I don’t recall a threat to Stroud either....and I tend to read threads before I post.
....for the first time in all this posting, I now want to re-read the thread.

I recall other threats though....which I didn’t like....I’m with the moderators on that one...
....these are words on a screen that we all try to make sense out of....
....NOT challenges to duels.

It wasn't direct personal threats like i'm going to kill you or break your legs, but several members were starting recommending "sending" someone to his house, or "reminding" him etc. if someone happened to see him at pool tournaments so he would come through... etc. Veiled threats like they always do in worse case scenarios ... Still pretty disturbing to suggest hurting a elderly person who didn't follow through on a promise of months of free labor if you ask me. Wilson put a stop to it pretty quick after i told him I felt it was getting out of hand.
I do think he's paid enough for his mistake and there is no need to continue battering him or his legacy for the rest of his life though that old thread. People are allowed to expunge their records for past crimes all the time so they can live their lives without having to pay forever for a mistake. He didn't even commit a crime and isn't trying to gain financially through this... I think the thread clearly deserves to be expunged.. JMO John

Dan White · Sep 9, 2018

crabbcatjohn said:
I do think he's paid enough for his mistake and there is no need to continue battering him or his legacy for the rest of his life though that old thread. People are allowed to expunge their records for past crimes all the time so they can live their lives without having to pay forever for a mistake. He didn't even commit a crime and isn't trying to gain financially through this... I think the thread clearly deserves to be expunged.. JMO John

If a criminal in court expresses no remorse to the judge or on occasion even brags about his crime he will get the book thrown at him. On the other hand, if he shows remorse and apologizes he will likely get a lighter sentence. It is human nature that just a little apology or show of remorse would do a lot to end the controversy. Maybe BS did that earlier in the thread, I don't really know as I didn't read 100% of it, but it seems that that didn't happen. BTW I am not calling BS a criminal for this situation, just an example.

WildWing · Sep 9, 2018

Criminal?
Remorse?
Judge
Sentence?
Book thrown at him?

?????????????

Please state the crime, specific statute.

eihi · Sep 9, 2018

I am about 99.9% sure Nobody threatened Bill, he also never said he completed the cue.

He did mention he tried 3 times and was unsuccessful, Jake H said he was working on the cue, but was struggling with the ring work.

Jake promised the forums he would come through, which oddly everyone seems to ignore, The last thing the winner said was he wanted to wait on Jake, which also everyone seems to ignore.

I made a comment that those calling Bill mean names after he disclosed his cancer have forgotten the basic man code and need to be brought back to reality.

You know? don't talk about someone's mom, don't pick on the disabled or sick, don't pick on people weaker/smaller than you, don't put your hands on a woman, etc...

I later made a comment about karma which based on my previous postprobably seemed like a threat, although I did try to clarify, nobody physically assaulted bill, so karma in my eyes would be getting called out in a public arena over your shitty comments.

I think calling someone with brain cancer a liar, cheat, jerk, asshole, turd, piece of shit etc, is in terribly bad taste, I have known Bill had cancer for awhile, but i stayed out the thread until Bill brought it up.

Bill fcked up royally, I have no problem with people discussing it, just chill on the name calling was my point.

There was a guy, I forgot his name(DreamCatcher, Suncatcher), he mentioned his sig sauer in an obviously joking manner, I took no offense, and I definitely didn't mash the report button over his comments.

I wish I was 1/10th as articulate as Will

Dan White · Sep 9, 2018

WildWing said:
Criminal?
Remorse?
Judge
Sentence?
Book thrown at him?

?????????????

Please state the crime, specific statute.

Please reread my post more carefully. Thanks.

crabbcatjohn · Sep 9, 2018

Dan White said:
If a criminal in court expresses no remorse to the judge or on occasion even brags about his crime he will get the book thrown at him. On the other hand, if he shows remorse and apologizes he will likely get a lighter sentence. It is human nature that just a little apology or show of remorse would do a lot to end the controversy. Maybe BS did that earlier in the thread, I don't really know as I didn't read 100% of it, but it seems that that didn't happen. BTW I am not calling BS a criminal for this situation, just an example.

I was speaking of expunging a public record of a crime. A much more serious offense than a broken promise of giving someone something for free. A life sentence is a little extreme in this case IMO..
But this is AZ billiards, you get a life sentence on here. Doesn't matter if your old or sick, you get called a thief, a liar, receive veiled threats and your life long reputation as a artist is tarnished. There is no forgiveness here, its all what i want. And if you don't give it too me i'm going to ruin you and hound you for the rest of whats left of your life. Aren't we bigger than that?

crabbcatjohn · Sep 9, 2018

eihi said:
I am about 99.9% sure Nobody threatened Bill, he also never said he completed the cue.

He did mention he tried 3 times and was unsuccessful, Jake H said he was working on the cue, but was struggling with the ring work.

Jake promised the forums he would come through, which oddly everyone seems to ignore, The last thing the winner said was he wanted to wait on Jake, which also everyone seems to ignore.

I made a comment that those calling Bill mean names after he disclosed his cancer have forgotten the basic man code and need to be brought back to reality.

You know? don't talk about someone's mom, don't pick on the disabled or sick, don't pick on people weaker/smaller than you, don't put your hands on a woman, etc...

I later made a comment about karma which based on my previous postprobably seemed like a threat, although I did try to clarify, nobody physically assaulted bill, so karma in my eyes would be getting called out in a public arena over your shitty comments.

I think calling someone with brain cancer a liar, cheat, jerk, asshole, turd, piece of shit etc, is in terribly bad taste, I have known Bill had cancer for awhile, but i stayed out the thread until Bill brought it up.

Bill fcked up royally, I have no problem with people discussing it, just chill on the name calling was my point.

There was a guy, I forgot his name(DreamCatcher, Suncatcher), he mentioned his sig sauer in an obviously joking manner, I took no offense, and I definitely didn't mash the report button over his comments.

I wish I was 1/10th as articulate as Will

Very well said.

Straightpool_99 · Sep 9, 2018

WildWing said:
Criminal?
Remorse?
Judge
Sentence?
Book thrown at him?

?????????????

Please state the crime, specific statute.

Here is my take on those points.
There is no crime.

Bill Stroud promised to make a cue. He didn't deliver on his promise. He also redoubled on his promise by claiming he hadn't sold his equipment, that the cue was nearly done, etc. One might argue that that is deception, lying even, but that really is only a matter of opinion and cannot be proven to be a fact.

I don't want any harm to come to him, and hope he recovers from his illness. I have no wish to call him names or anything like that. If i have in the past, I apologize, but I don't think I have.

He won't receive any punishment, there is no book to be thrown. He has in fact posted on Azb this whole time with complete impunity. As far as I know, the only threats that have been made (and there have been several), have been against posters that were critical of his actions, not BS himself.

As far as "remorse" is concerned, that is all on him. As far as I can tell from his posts, he doesn't believe he has done anything that merits an apology, at least not a public one. So it's fair to say it looks like he doesn't feel much remorse if any. Some people do feel remorse when they fail to deliver on their promises, even if that were due to factors that were outside of their control. They also feel a need to inform those to whom the promises were made of their failure in that matter. People are not all alike.

The thread is a matter of "public record" (not in the legal sense), but still. This event took place. There is no reason to sweep that under the rug and doing so will not undo anything. Keeping the thread up is not a punishment, it's just recording history.

WildWing · Sep 9, 2018

Straightpool_99 said:
Here is my take on those points.
There is no crime.

Bill Stroud promised to make a cue. He didn't deliver on his promise. He also redoubled on his promise by claiming he hadn't sold his equipment, that the cue was nearly done, etc. One might argue that that is deception, lying even, but that really is only a matter of opinion and cannot be proven to be a fact.

I don't want any harm to come to him, and hope he recovers from his illness. I have no wish to call him names or anything like that. If i have in the past, I apologize, but I don't think I have.

He won't receive any punishment, there is no book to be thrown. He has in fact posted on Azb this whole time with complete impunity. As far as I know, the only threats that have been made (and there have been several), have been against posters that were critical of his actions, not BS himself.

As far as "remorse" is concerned, that is all on him. As far as I can tell from his posts, he doesn't believe he has done anything that merits an apology, at least not a public one. So it's fair to say it looks like he doesn't feel much remorse if any. Some people do feel remorse when they fail to deliver on their promises, even if that were due to factors that were outside of their control. They also feel a need to inform those to whom the promises were made of their failure in that matter. People are not all alike.

The thread is a matter of "public record" (not in the legal sense), but still. This event took place. There is no reason to sweep that under the rug and doing so will not undo anything. Keeping the thread up is not a punishment, it's just recording history.

That's fair, I understand that. However, when some imply this is connected or associated with legality, that is another matter of exaggeration.

All the best,
WW

Dan White · Sep 9, 2018

WildWing said:
That's fair, I understand that. However, when some imply this is connected or associated with legality, that is another matter of exaggeration.

All the best,
WW

Who did that?

WildWing · Sep 9, 2018

Dan White said:
Who did that?

Well, your comparison with a criminal in court with a judge, remorse, etc, pretty much did that comparison. You can re-read your own posts.

My call on this all along has been to let this go, and there is no given, free lunch. There have been a lot of accusations left and right, and there is no end to it. Maybe some of you enjoy that this keeps going on and on. I don't think it's good for the forum, and as I stated earlier, it doesn't impact the value of Josswest Cues at all.

All the best,
WW

Dan White · Sep 9, 2018

WildWing said:
Well, your comparison with a criminal in court with a judge, remorse, etc, pretty much did that comparison. You can re-read your own threads.

My call on this all along has been to let this go, and there is no given, free lunch. There have been a lot of accusations left and right, and there is no end to it. Maybe some of you enjoy that this keeps going on and on. I don't think it's good for the forum, and as I stated earlier, it doesn't impact the value of Josswest Cues at all.

All the best,
WW

If you can't be bothered to look up two posts and see where I explicitly stated that I was not calling BS a criminal then I can understand why these threads never end. There is such a thing as court of public opinion which I didn't think was such a far stretch for people to get the point of. However, this is a heated topic so I understand. My only interest was in recalling (right or wrong) that BS said the cue was complete except for engraving. Other than that topic I'll bow out and you can have the floor.

eihi · Sep 9, 2018

I can say having browsed the aiming forum, a couple of you have proven an absolute inability to let go of things, lol

Luxury · Sep 9, 2018

lfigueroa said:
This post -- all by its lonesome -- makes the case for returning the thread.

I don't recall anyone threatening BS with violence. I also don't recall BS saying the cue was finished as DW pointed out. I also don't recall how much time passd between the start of the contest and when he called it off and when he got sick -- all pertinent info.

There's plenty of reasons for making it viewable, if not a thread we could still comment on.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, I have a pretty vivid memory of a post from BS stating that the project had made significant progress but still needed the final touches. It was never stated that it was completely finished. I’m not a cue maker so someone can step in and help remind me what he said the final step was. It may have been something like the engravings or something like that.

Why the contest winner wasn’t given whatever progress had been made is not beyond me at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Removal Of The Design Your Dream Thread

What do you feel would be the best dispostion of the DYD thread?

I feel that the DYD thread should be Open With Continued Participation

I feel that the DYD thread should be Closed & No Longer Viewable

I feel that the DYD thread should be Closed but Still Viewable With No Further Participation

Super Gun Mod

WO double hemlock

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WO double hemlock

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Super Gun Mod

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I see dead balls

Super Gun Mod

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