dont seem to get enought speed on my three rail shots

Is this it?

pj
chgo

Running the ball requires smoothness as well. Leave out the pocketing requirement and shoot the shot just to run the cue ball.

judochoke said:

object ball on the second diamond, one ball width from the rail, cue ball a little left of center of the table. when i try to go three rails with a little right english, my cue ball barely makes it to the third rail. i c

ant seem to get any speed or power to get the cue ball all the way to the other end of the table.

i try a longer bridge, a longer backstroke, more power on my stroke, but the cue ball just barely hits the third rail?

is this a high ball shot with right english? center ball hit with right english?

sometimes i will hit it right, and the cue ball moves nicely, almost 4 rails, but 80 percent of the time, it comes off the second rail like a dud.

whats my problem? as i really like this shot, and it comes up very often. thanks, judo

Click to expand...

When sighting down the cue ball, look at the left edge of your tip. Is it hitting the right side of the cue ball therefore putting running english on the cue ball? This spin will give the cueball tremendous acceleration. In this case center right should get you there. A smooth transition from backswing to foreswing with no head movement on every shot. Also try an exaggerated follow through to get used to it. I thought I was following through enough but not according to my digicue contraption.

judochoke said:

object ball on the second diamond, one ball width from the rail, cue ball a little left of center of the table. when i try to go three rails with a little right english, my cue ball barely makes it to the third rail. i c

ant seem to get any speed or power to get the cue ball all the way to the other end of the table.

i try a longer bridge, a longer backstroke, more power on my stroke, but the cue ball just barely hits the third rail?

is this a high ball shot with right english? center ball hit with right english?

sometimes i will hit it right, and the cue ball moves nicely, almost 4 rails, but 80 percent of the time, it comes off the second rail like a dud.

whats my problem? as i really like this shot, and it comes up very often. thanks, judo

Click to expand...

My thoughts are:
1) You aren't getting enough english on the ball. Forget about the 1 tip from the center rule of thumb, you need to hit this far out.
2) You are hitting the OB too thick. This shot needs to be hit to where the OB gets thrown in. So a little overcut and let it come into the pocket. If you are brushing the rail on the way in you are hitting it thicker and will retain less speed.
3) You sometimes need to add a little high to go along with the right spin on this shot. It depends on the angle you want the CB to travel. A little top will help the CB hit the rail at less of an angle and allow it to retain more speed along the line while being helped by the inside English.
4) You might be hitting it too hard. The hard you hit the CB the less the spin on the rail will take. If you are hitting it hard then the rail could be compressing and actually slowing your shot down more than intended. It's more of a smooth stroke than a hard stroke.

To work on this shot, just set it up. Like straightball suggested don't worry about making the OB. Just focus on a nice smooth stroke and watch the angle of the CB. Move the OB closer and further from the rail until you get a feel for it. Then start working on making the OB and getting the CB path you want.

This is an important shot and whatever time you put in getting it right will pay big dividends for as long as you play pool.

tableroll...Exaggerated follow through has no physical effect on the outcome of the shot.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

tableroll said:

Also try an exaggerated follow through to get used to it. I thought I was following through enough but not according to my digicue contraption.

Click to expand...

Scott Lee said:

tableroll...Exaggerated follow through has no physical effect on the outcome of the shot.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Click to expand...

I was not having enough follow through on my digicue blue. So I went to an exaggerated follow through. Many repetitions concentrating on smooth transition with exaggerated follow through. Finally I managed to stay in the high green (good) area of the "follow through" section of the digicue blue. Exaggerated follow through is only a tool to use if one is having "shortened" follow through. This tool extended my follow through to the correct level. I do not use it anymore because it has helped me to correct my follow through and I am now satisfied with it. I also rarely show a "jab" in my stroke anymore. Smooth follow through has greatly helped me in making better quality shotmaking. I seem to be hitting center pocket more often. I think a good follow through on a shot that involves spin helps in the outcome.

Sixpack nailed it..... use top also. I nice smooth top inside stroke works perfect for me every time. The top gives the cb more running speed off that 1st cushion.

I wouldn't shoot this shot this way. I'd use low left with a kill stroke effect. You just have to make sure you really spin it to avoid the cross-side scratch. But let's say you had no choice and had to go forward. You've got too much angle to comfortably go forward the way you described. If I were you, I'd consider a cross bank with a touch of left to keep the cb on the left side of the table for position on the next ball. It's a 2-way shot leaving your opponent long if you miss. If the ob were closer to the bottom rail or if you had less angle, you could easily shoot it with high right or center right, depending on how close the ob is to the bottom rail. But the key is to get the cb rolling as soon as possible. Stun/force is your enemy on this type of shot. It's a finesse shot. And you MUST keep a loose grip on this shot.

judochoke said:

object ball on the second diamond, one ball width from the rail, cue ball a little left of center of the table. when i try to go three rails with a little right english, my cue ball barely makes it to the third rail. i c

ant seem to get any speed or power to get the cue ball all the way to the other end of the table.

i try a longer bridge, a longer backstroke, more power on my stroke, but the cue ball just barely hits the third rail?

is this a high ball shot with right english? center ball hit with right english?

sometimes i will hit it right, and the cue ball moves nicely, almost 4 rails, but 80 percent of the time, it comes off the second rail like a dud.

whats my problem? as i really like this shot, and it comes up very often. thanks, judo

Click to expand...

The comments are correct. Running English will add more speed. Hitting high on the cue ball when it is so close to the rail can even slow it down. The cue ball doesn't have time to develop roll and fights to continue forward but hits the rail. Dr. Dave calls this "rail dribble". It all depends on the angle. The more straight into the rail the more it affects the speed. If you were 30 degrees or less top would speed it up but if you are 45 degrees I don't know if it would help or hurt. One thing for sure, at 45 degrees the top would not help as much as using center ball and getting more running English on the cue ball. Center ball allows you to get way out to the side. Of course this makes the shot much more difficult. Look at the diagram Patrick gave us. Picture the force of the cue ball going straight forward. High action creates a force in that direction. You can see at some point it starts to work against you. Experiment with and without top.

The problem is you have to compensate for all that side spin and that makes the shot more difficult. That is probably why Fran would not shoot it that way.

Also the table has a lot to do with it. Some tables are just slow and it is very hard to get the speed. Others so fast you can't help it. Spin is a BIG factor on slow tables. It matters on all tables but is the main force on a table with soft cloth or dead rails or slow for whatever reason.

judochoke said:

thanks for all the great replys. looks like when i started to use a loose wrist, the cue ball just took off. just a very loose grip, a loose wrist, did the trick for me. sometimes the ball goes right into the far bottom corner, it goes so far. thanks again, judo

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You might think it's the added speed from your loose wrist, but I wonder. Try using a striped ball as your CB with the stripe vertical and checking the chalk marks to see how much side spin you're getting both ways.

pj
chgo