Old Nine Baller
Banned
I have been a lurker here for quite awhile and I've been following the 2-Foul vs. 1-Foul comparison threads with much interest. I've noticed quite a few discrepancies in the descriptions of the 2-Foul game and I thought I'd tell what I know.
First of all, "any two" means that BIH is given to the player who does not commit the 2nd consecutive foul. You do not need to be "hooked" to push-out. You can push-out anytime you want for any reason or no reason. All you need to do is commit a foul of any type and your opponent can tell you to "shoot again". If you "scratch" in a pocket and it's the 1st foul, your opponent can tell you to shoot again from behind the headstring or he can take the shot.
Some players liked to play that "all balls made on a foul spot up" but that's not a hard & fast rule. Some liked to play that "all balls made on a foul stay down" but that's up for discussion before playing.
Some liked to play that if you scratched in a pocket for the 1st foul and the lowest numbered ball was behind the headstring then it would spot-up. It would spot up behind any balls already on the footspot.
Some liked to play that only the "ball before the money" spots up on a foul. If you were playing "even" that would mean that if either player made the ball before the 9 and fouled then the ball before the 9 would spot up. Whether or not BIH was awarded was dependent upon whether or not it was the 1st or 2nd foul. Either way, the ball before the 9 would spot up.
When you were giving up "weight" it changed things a little. If you were giving up the 7 ball and your opponent scratched (in a pocket, 1st foul) after making the ball before the 7 you could make him spot it up and shoot at it (behind the line)...but, if you elected to shoot the next shot the ball he made would stay down as it was not the ball before your money ball (9). Either way, 1st or 2nd foul, if you made him shoot again, his ball before his money ball would spot up if he pocketed it and fouled. Also, if you pocketed his "money ball" (7 in this example) and fouled, it would come up on the spot in any case. You could not shoot in his money ball and foul and leave it down.
The "other" way to play "two-foul" was to play "two fouls by the same player is BIH". There are two variations of this game. The 1st is that if you push-out and then I shoot and make a good hit on the object ball your foul is erased.
A few guys liked to play that if you push-out and then I shoot and make a good hit you are still on one foul. That's a rather ridiculous way to play in that it gives the incoming player much too much power.
The entire point of two-foul 9-Ball is that the first player to foul or push-out gives up control of the table (potentially) to his opponent. That's the penalty and it's a tough one. Your penalty for getting out-of-line or making a mistake is possibly giving up control of the table. That's a huge penalty and should be the only penalty in my eyes.
With the one exception of playing "two by the same player" where guys might play you were still on a foul if you pushed-out and I make a good hit, any good hit by either player erased all fouls by both players.
I have seen this point missed on this site so I state it again: any good hit, without a foul occurring, erases any fouls for either player (except as stated above).
C.J. is correct in stating that two-foul 9-Ball is much superior to one-foul 9-Ball. Players, when faced with a tough shot will elect to shoot and take their chances rather than play a safety as you might in one-foul. There is much more offense because of this. Two-Foul is so rich in strategy that you really could write a book about it. A guy may push-out to a bankshot when he's hooked early in a set and you may tell him to "shoot again". Later in the set, with the match on the line he may push-out to the same bank that you've been telling him to shoot but this time you might take the shot. Much thinking and "daring" goes into the two-foul game.
Rarely are there more than one or two push-outs in a game between top players and even more rarely is a BIH given up. Remember, players aren't usually pushing out to a safety because their opponent can play the same one in return. They are usually pushing out to a shot of some type and that makes for a great game of offense. Almost never does a guy play a safety unless there is no option and then his opponent can play the safe and force him to push-out. Two-foul also frees up a player to take chances breaking up clusters or playing "tough" position because he knows he can always push-out if he gets hooked. You'll see many spectacular shots that one-foul players would never even attempt.
I know this is all very confusing to younger players who've grown up accustomed to one-foul BIH rules but two-foul is a much better way to play 9-Ball for a very important reason; it helps you protect your money. It doesn't matter if you are giving weight, getting weight, or playing even, it helps you protect your money. After all, that's the bottom line isn't it? Do you really want to kick at the 7 ball when you can push-out on it? Of course not.
Any questions feel free to ask away.
ONB
First of all, "any two" means that BIH is given to the player who does not commit the 2nd consecutive foul. You do not need to be "hooked" to push-out. You can push-out anytime you want for any reason or no reason. All you need to do is commit a foul of any type and your opponent can tell you to "shoot again". If you "scratch" in a pocket and it's the 1st foul, your opponent can tell you to shoot again from behind the headstring or he can take the shot.
Some players liked to play that "all balls made on a foul spot up" but that's not a hard & fast rule. Some liked to play that "all balls made on a foul stay down" but that's up for discussion before playing.
Some liked to play that if you scratched in a pocket for the 1st foul and the lowest numbered ball was behind the headstring then it would spot-up. It would spot up behind any balls already on the footspot.
Some liked to play that only the "ball before the money" spots up on a foul. If you were playing "even" that would mean that if either player made the ball before the 9 and fouled then the ball before the 9 would spot up. Whether or not BIH was awarded was dependent upon whether or not it was the 1st or 2nd foul. Either way, the ball before the 9 would spot up.
When you were giving up "weight" it changed things a little. If you were giving up the 7 ball and your opponent scratched (in a pocket, 1st foul) after making the ball before the 7 you could make him spot it up and shoot at it (behind the line)...but, if you elected to shoot the next shot the ball he made would stay down as it was not the ball before your money ball (9). Either way, 1st or 2nd foul, if you made him shoot again, his ball before his money ball would spot up if he pocketed it and fouled. Also, if you pocketed his "money ball" (7 in this example) and fouled, it would come up on the spot in any case. You could not shoot in his money ball and foul and leave it down.
The "other" way to play "two-foul" was to play "two fouls by the same player is BIH". There are two variations of this game. The 1st is that if you push-out and then I shoot and make a good hit on the object ball your foul is erased.
A few guys liked to play that if you push-out and then I shoot and make a good hit you are still on one foul. That's a rather ridiculous way to play in that it gives the incoming player much too much power.
The entire point of two-foul 9-Ball is that the first player to foul or push-out gives up control of the table (potentially) to his opponent. That's the penalty and it's a tough one. Your penalty for getting out-of-line or making a mistake is possibly giving up control of the table. That's a huge penalty and should be the only penalty in my eyes.
With the one exception of playing "two by the same player" where guys might play you were still on a foul if you pushed-out and I make a good hit, any good hit by either player erased all fouls by both players.
I have seen this point missed on this site so I state it again: any good hit, without a foul occurring, erases any fouls for either player (except as stated above).
C.J. is correct in stating that two-foul 9-Ball is much superior to one-foul 9-Ball. Players, when faced with a tough shot will elect to shoot and take their chances rather than play a safety as you might in one-foul. There is much more offense because of this. Two-Foul is so rich in strategy that you really could write a book about it. A guy may push-out to a bankshot when he's hooked early in a set and you may tell him to "shoot again". Later in the set, with the match on the line he may push-out to the same bank that you've been telling him to shoot but this time you might take the shot. Much thinking and "daring" goes into the two-foul game.
Rarely are there more than one or two push-outs in a game between top players and even more rarely is a BIH given up. Remember, players aren't usually pushing out to a safety because their opponent can play the same one in return. They are usually pushing out to a shot of some type and that makes for a great game of offense. Almost never does a guy play a safety unless there is no option and then his opponent can play the safe and force him to push-out. Two-foul also frees up a player to take chances breaking up clusters or playing "tough" position because he knows he can always push-out if he gets hooked. You'll see many spectacular shots that one-foul players would never even attempt.
I know this is all very confusing to younger players who've grown up accustomed to one-foul BIH rules but two-foul is a much better way to play 9-Ball for a very important reason; it helps you protect your money. It doesn't matter if you are giving weight, getting weight, or playing even, it helps you protect your money. After all, that's the bottom line isn't it? Do you really want to kick at the 7 ball when you can push-out on it? Of course not.
Any questions feel free to ask away.
ONB
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