Stats -- 2018 Freezer's Ice House 1-Pocket Challenge, July 2018

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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Here are some statistics from the 2018 Freezer's Ice House 1-Pocket Challenge, played July 11-13 at Freezer's Ice House (a pool hall) in Tempe, Arizona with free streaming on YouTube by povpool.

This was a 50-player, double-elimination event, with all races to 3 except the final match (to 5). The winner was Dennis Orcollo, beating Josh Roberts in the final match.

Conditions -- The conditions for the streamed matches included:
- Diamond 9-foot table with 4 1/8" corner pockets and blue Simonis 860 cloth;​
- Aramith Tournament balls with a measles cue ball;​
- triangle rack;​
- rack your own with alternating breaks;​
- a ball made on a legal break counts;​
- no shot clock, but with a "1-plus-1" rule for slow play on the first day -- at the Tournament Director's discretion, one game is added to each player's score if the score is 0-0, 1-0, or 1-1 after 105 minutes of play (did not happen);​
- foul on all balls;​
- 3 fouls in a row is loss of game (did not happen); and​
- lag for opening break in most matches (the winner of the hot seat got the opening break in the final match).​

Unless stated otherwise, the stats are for the 13 streamed matches (58 games), which represented 13.5% of the total of 96 matches played in the event and 15.1% of the total of 383 games played in the event. The streamed matches are listed here in the order in which they were played:

Wed. July 11
1. Dennis Orcollo defeated Chris McDaniel 3-1​
2. Warren Kiamco d. Bob Herchik 3-2​
3. Josh Roberts d. Brandon Shuff 3-1​
4. Tony Chohan d. Warren Kiamco 3-2​
5. Scott Frost d. Derek Pogirski 3-0​
6. Billy Thorpe d. Derek Pogirski 3-0​

Thurs. July 12
7. Chip Compton d. Chris Robinson 3-2​
8. Orcollo d. Frost 3-2​
9. Orcollo d. Alex Pagulayan 3-1​
10. Chohan d. Pagulayan 3-1​

Fri. July 13
11. Orcollo d. Roberts 3-2 (Hotseat match)​
12. Roberts d. Chohan 3-2 (Semifinal)​
13. Orcollo d. Roberts 5-1 (Final)​

Breaks from breaker's right side of table -- 31 of 58 (53%)

Games won by breaker
When breaking from his left side of table -- 10 of 27 (37%)​
When breaking from his right side of table -- 24 of 31 (77%)
Total -- 34 of 58 (59%)​

Games won by player who scored the first point (or had it scored for him) -- 38 of 58 (66%)

Matches won by winner of lag -- 9 of 13 (69%)

High run-outs
9(or more)-and-outs -- none​
8-and-outs -- 11 times: 3 by Kiamco (Matches 2 twice and 4), 2 by Orcollo (Matches 1 and 13), 2 by Roberts (Matches 3 and 11), and 1 each by Shuff (Match 3), Thorpe (Match 6), Pagulayan (Match 9), and Chohan (Match 10)​

Race lengths
Longest in total length (3 hrs., 24 min.) -- Orcollo d. Frost 3-2​
Highest in average minutes per game (41 min.) -- Orcollo d. Frost 3-2 and Orcollo d. Pagulayan 3-1​
Shortest in total length (39 min.) -- Thorpe d. Pogirski 3-0​
Lowest in average minutes per game (13 min.) -- Thorpe d. Pogirski 3-0​
Average length of races to 3 -- 1 hr., 51 min.​
Average minutes per game -- 26 min.​

Average score of the 12 tracked races to 3 -- 3 - 1.3. Two matches were shutouts and 6 went to hill/hill.

Average score of all 95 races to 3 in the event -- 3 - 1.0. Thirty-two matches were shutouts and 29 went to hill/hill.

Ball counts by length of run -- The total ball counts resulted from the following runs and fouls.
1 ball -- 120 times​
2 balls -- 32​
3 balls -- 23​
4 balls -- 24​
5 balls -- 15​
6 balls -- 11​
7 balls -- 4​
8 balls -- 11​
9+ balls -- 0​
Plus balls pocketed by opponents -- 50​
Minus fouls -- 76​
TOTAL ball count (58 games) -- 580​
Average game score (these 58 games) -- 8 - 2.0​

Distribution of run-outs to win the games:
1 ball -- 21 (36% of 58 games)​
2 balls -- 9​
3 balls -- 4​
4 balls -- 5​
5 balls -- 4​
6 balls -- 1​
7 balls -- 3​
8 balls -- 11 (19%)​
Average (mean) "out" run -- 3.6 balls​
Average (median) "out" run -- 2 balls​
 
Last edited:

Johnny Rosato

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here are some statistics from the 2018 Freezer's Ice House 1-Pocket Challenge, played July 11-13 at Freezer's Ice House (a pool hall) in Tempe, Arizona with free streaming on YouTube by povpool.

This was a 50-player, double-elimination event, with all races to 3 except the final match (to 5). The winner was Dennis Orcollo, beating Josh Roberts in the final match.

Conditions -- The conditions for the streamed matches included:
- Diamond 9-foot table with 4 1/8" corner pockets and blue Simonis 860 cloth;
- Aramith Tournament balls with a measles cue ball;
- triangle rack;
- rack your own with alternating breaks;
- a ball made on a legal break counts;
- no shot clock, but with a "1-plus-1" rule for slow play on the first day -- at the Tournament Director's discretion, one game is added to each player's score if the score is 0-0, 1-0, or 1-1 after 105 minutes of play (did not happen);
- foul on all balls;
- 3 fouls in a row is loss of game (did not happen); and
- lag for opening break in most matches (the winner of the hot seat got the opening break in the final match).

Unless stated otherwise, the stats are for the 13 streamed matches (58 games), which represented 13.5% of the total of 96 matches played in the event and 15.1% of the total of 383 games played in the event. The streamed matches are listed here in the order in which they were played:

Wed. July 11
  • 1. Dennis Orcollo defeated Chris McDaniel 3-1
  • 2. Warren Kiamco d. Bob Herchik 3-2
  • 3. Josh Roberts d. Brandon Shuff 3-1
  • 4. Tony Chohan d. Warren Kiamco 3-2
  • 5. Scott Frost d. Derek Pogirski 3-0
  • 6. Billy Thorpe d. Derek Pogirski 3-0

Thurs. July 12
  • 7. Chip Compton d. Chris Robinson 3-2
  • 8. Orcollo d. Frost 3-2
  • 9. Orcollo d. Alex Pagulayan 3-1
  • 10. Chohan d. Pagulayan 3-1

Fri. July 13
  • 11. Orcollo d. Roberts 3-2 (Hotseat match)
  • 12. Roberts d. Chohan 3-2 (Semifinal)
  • 13. Orcollo d. Roberts 5-1 (Final)

Breaks from breaker's right side of table -- 31 of 58 (53%)

Games won by breaker
  • When breaking from his left side of table -- 10 of 27 (37%)
  • When breaking from his right side of table -- 24 of 31 (77%)
    Total -- 34 of 58 (59%)

Games won by player who scored the first point (or had it scored for him) -- 38 of 58 (66%)

Matches won by winner of lag -- 9 of 13 (69%)

High run-outs
  • 9(or more)-and-outs -- none
  • 8-and-outs -- 11 times: 3 by Kiamco (Matches 2 twice and 4), 2 by Orcollo (Matches 1 and 13), 2 by Roberts (Matches 3 and 11), and 1 each by Shuff (Match 3), Thorpe (Match 6), Pagulayan (Match 9), and Chohan (Match 10)

Race lengths
  • Longest in total length (3 hrs., 24 min.) -- Orcollo d. Frost 3-2
  • Highest in average minutes per game (41 min.) -- Orcollo d. Frost 3-2 and Orcollo d. Pagulayan 3-1
  • Shortest in total length (39 min.) -- Thorpe d. Pogirski 3-0
  • Lowest in average minutes per game (13 min.) -- Thorpe d. Pogirski 3-0
  • Average length of races to 3 -- 1 hr., 51 min.
  • Average minutes per game -- 26 min.

Average score of the 12 tracked races to 3 -- 3 - 1.3. Two matches were shutouts and 6 went to hill/hill.

Average score of all 95 races to 3 in the event -- 3 - 1.0. Thirty-two matches were shutouts and 29 went to hill/hill.

Ball counts by length of run -- The total ball counts resulted from the following runs and fouls.
  • 1 ball -- 120 times
  • 2 balls -- 32
  • 3 balls -- 23
  • 4 balls -- 24
  • 5 balls -- 15
  • 6 balls -- 11
  • 7 balls -- 4
  • 8 balls -- 11
  • 9+ balls -- 0
  • Plus balls pocketed by opponents -- 50
  • Minus fouls -- 76
  • TOTAL ball count (58 games) -- 580
  • Average game score (these 58 games) -- 8 - 2.0

Distribution of run-outs to win the games:
  • 1 ball -- 21 (36% of 58 games)
  • 2 balls -- 9
  • 3 balls -- 4
  • 4 balls -- 5
  • 5 balls -- 4
  • 6 balls -- 1
  • 7 balls -- 3
  • 8 balls -- 11 (19%)
  • Average (mean) "out" run -- 3.6 balls
  • Average (median) "out" run -- 2 balls
I'm a long time pool player, (banger), but new to tourneys & statistics. Thank you for this!
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
atlarge
thanks for the time and effort to compile these statistics
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here are some statistics from the 2018 Freezer's Ice House 1-Pocket Challenge, played July 11-13 at Freezer's Ice House (a pool hall) in Tempe, Arizona with free streaming on YouTube by povpool.

This was a 50-player, double-elimination event, with all races to 3 except the final match (to 5). The winner was Dennis Orcollo, beating Josh Roberts in the final match.

Conditions -- The conditions for the streamed matches included:
- Diamond 9-foot table with 4 1/8" corner pockets and blue Simonis 860 cloth;
- Aramith Tournament balls with a measles cue ball;
- triangle rack;
- rack your own with alternating breaks;
- a ball made on a legal break counts;
- no shot clock, but with a "1-plus-1" rule for slow play on the first day -- at the Tournament Director's discretion, one game is added to each player's score if the score is 0-0, 1-0, or 1-1 after 105 minutes of play (did not happen);
- foul on all balls;
- 3 fouls in a row is loss of game (did not happen); and
- lag for opening break in most matches (the winner of the hot seat got the opening break in the final match).

Unless stated otherwise, the stats are for the 13 streamed matches (58 games), which represented 13.5% of the total of 96 matches played in the event and 15.1% of the total of 383 games played in the event. The streamed matches are listed here in the order in which they were played:

Wed. July 11
  • 1. Dennis Orcollo defeated Chris McDaniel 3-1
  • 2. Warren Kiamco d. Bob Herchik 3-2
  • 3. Josh Roberts d. Brandon Shuff 3-1
  • 4. Tony Chohan d. Warren Kiamco 3-2
  • 5. Scott Frost d. Derek Pogirski 3-0
  • 6. Billy Thorpe d. Derek Pogirski 3-0

Thurs. July 12
  • 7. Chip Compton d. Chris Robinson 3-2
  • 8. Orcollo d. Frost 3-2
  • 9. Orcollo d. Alex Pagulayan 3-1
  • 10. Chohan d. Pagulayan 3-1

Fri. July 13
  • 11. Orcollo d. Roberts 3-2 (Hotseat match)
  • 12. Roberts d. Chohan 3-2 (Semifinal)
  • 13. Orcollo d. Roberts 5-1 (Final)

Breaks from breaker's right side of table -- 31 of 58 (53%)

Games won by breaker
  • When breaking from his left side of table -- 10 of 27 (37%)
  • When breaking from his right side of table -- 24 of 31 (77%)
    Total -- 34 of 58 (59%)

Games won by player who scored the first point (or had it scored for him) -- 38 of 58 (66%)

Matches won by winner of lag -- 9 of 13 (69%)

High run-outs
  • 9(or more)-and-outs -- none
  • 8-and-outs -- 11 times: 3 by Kiamco (Matches 2 twice and 4), 2 by Orcollo (Matches 1 and 13), 2 by Roberts (Matches 3 and 11), and 1 each by Shuff (Match 3), Thorpe (Match 6), Pagulayan (Match 9), and Chohan (Match 10)

Race lengths
  • Longest in total length (3 hrs., 24 min.) -- Orcollo d. Frost 3-2
  • Highest in average minutes per game (41 min.) -- Orcollo d. Frost 3-2 and Orcollo d. Pagulayan 3-1
  • Shortest in total length (39 min.) -- Thorpe d. Pogirski 3-0
  • Lowest in average minutes per game (13 min.) -- Thorpe d. Pogirski 3-0
  • Average length of races to 3 -- 1 hr., 51 min.
  • Average minutes per game -- 26 min.

Average score of the 12 tracked races to 3 -- 3 - 1.3. Two matches were shutouts and 6 went to hill/hill.

Average score of all 95 races to 3 in the event -- 3 - 1.0. Thirty-two matches were shutouts and 29 went to hill/hill.

Ball counts by length of run -- The total ball counts resulted from the following runs and fouls.
  • 1 ball -- 120 times
  • 2 balls -- 32
  • 3 balls -- 23
  • 4 balls -- 24
  • 5 balls -- 15
  • 6 balls -- 11
  • 7 balls -- 4
  • 8 balls -- 11
  • 9+ balls -- 0
  • Plus balls pocketed by opponents -- 50
  • Minus fouls -- 76
  • TOTAL ball count (58 games) -- 580
  • Average game score (these 58 games) -- 8 - 2.0

Distribution of run-outs to win the games:
  • 1 ball -- 21 (36% of 58 games)
  • 2 balls -- 9
  • 3 balls -- 4
  • 4 balls -- 5
  • 5 balls -- 4
  • 6 balls -- 1
  • 7 balls -- 3
  • 8 balls -- 11 (19%)
  • Average (mean) "out" run -- 3.6 balls
  • Average (median) "out" run -- 2 balls


What. No stats on how many pros were using Revo shafts? (I kid, I kid.)

Nice work, Large One. Thanks.

Lou Figueroa
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To clarify, only the streamed table had 4-1/8" corner pockets? As there were no more than 6 matches a day/night, do you happen to know if all the matches were played on the 4-1/8" corners streamed table, or were some matches played on a standard Diamond 4-1/2" corner pocket tables?

I'm curious if the streamed table with the 4-1/8" corners was ordered from the factory that way and still has 3/16 facings, was the table tightened up simply by adding thicker facings, or were the rails/pockets altered on site by a mechanic extending the subrails and then using 3/16" facings?
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To clarify, only the streamed table had 4-1/8" corner pockets? As there were no more than 6 matches a day/night, do you happen to know if all the matches were played on the 4-1/8" corners streamed table, or were some matches played on a standard Diamond 4-1/2" corner pocket tables?

I'm curious if the streamed table with the 4-1/8" corners was ordered from the factory that way and still has 3/16 facings, was the table tightened up simply by adding thicker facings, or were the rails/pockets altered on site by a mechanic extending the subrails and then using 3/16" facings?

They used 12 tables during the tournament, and only the streaming table was that tight. I think one commentator said the others have 4½" corners.

I do not know whether their tight tables (they have 2 in that room?) were that way from the factory.
 

HoustonInt

Big John's Cue Repair
Silver Member
Great work as always AtLarge!

Biggest surprise to me is the disparity in winner % breaking from the right side (77%) and left side (37%). Any idea why there is such a large difference?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
They used 12 tables during the tournament, and only the streaming table was that tight. I think one commentator said the others have 4½" corners.

I do not know whether their tight tables (they have 2 in that room?) were that way from the factory.

You're correct. There is also another tighter table in the back near the 10' table. I believe it's pockets are 4.25". The rest are standard.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great work as always AtLarge!

Biggest surprise to me is the disparity in winner % breaking from the right side (77%) and left side (37%). Any idea why there is such a large difference?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I as well find that to be strange. I'm sure we can get a one-pocket player here to chime in and give us a simple explanation for that statistic. Knowing very little about one-pocket, I'm clueless as to what would be the cause of that.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Biggest surprise to me is the disparity in winner % breaking from the right side (77%) and left side (37%). Any idea why there is such a large difference? ...

I as well find that to be strange. I'm sure we can get a one-pocket player here to chime in and give us a simple explanation for that statistic. Knowing very little about one-pocket, I'm clueless as to what would be the cause of that.

I'd chalk it up to small numbers and the fact that the top two finishers in the event always broke from the right. Orcollo and Roberts accounted for 22 of the 58 breaks and they won 18 of those 22 games.

Percentages like this can vary quite a bit from event to event when the numbers are small. At the Big Dog event last month, the breaker-won-game percentage for the tracked matches was 40% breaking from the left and 48% from the right. At this year's DCC, it was 55% from the left and 51% from the right.
 

gxman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would love to see a 1p action match between Shane and Dennis.

Saw Shane playing Tony even for 5K a set. So not seeing why Shane couldn't play Dennis.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Anyone know the prize money payouts on these two events?

One-Pocket
1st -- $3,000
2nd -- $1,700
3rd -- $1,100
4th -- $750
5th/6th -- $500
7th/8th -- $300​

10-Ball
1st -- $6,500
2nd -- $4,000
3rd -- $2,000
4th -- $1,500
5th/6th -- $1,000
7th/8th -- $750
9th/12th -- $550
13th/16th -- $450
17th/24th -- $300​
 
Last edited:

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Great work as always AtLarge!

Biggest surprise to me is the disparity in winner % breaking from the right side (77%) and left side (37%). Any idea why there is such a large difference?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In the road days, players who were sharp would break to the pocket the table favored.
Players who weren’t hep broke to the pocket they favored....
...some people favor cutting and spinning a certain way.
 

HoustonInt

Big John's Cue Repair
Silver Member
In the road days, players who were sharp would break to the pocket the table favored.
Players who weren’t hep broke to the pocket they favored....
...some people favor cutting and spinning a certain way.
At my local pool hall, I could understand that but at a tournament venue like this this, I cant imaging a particular pocket being so much more forgiving than the other.

I can see that a couple of players that went deep in the tourney may have skewed the stats, but I was very surprised to see such a difference.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the road days, players who were sharp would break to the pocket the table favored.
Players who weren’t hep broke to the pocket they favored....
...some people favor cutting and spinning a certain way.


Could also be which side of the table was rolling better. Sometimes one side rolls out, which is particularly problematic on banks shots hit at pocket speed.

Lou Figueroa
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Could also be which side of the table was rolling better. Sometimes one side rolls out, which is particularly problematic on banks shots hit at pocket speed.

Lou Figueroa

They did have a roll-out (toward the center) issue with one of the pockets here for a while, and it was the favored pocket!
 
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