becue/revo/cuetec carbon fiber are not the holy grail..YIKES

skogstokig said:

earl, is that you?

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That was hilarious.

Last Wednesday after League I got to try a 12.4 Revo. It will do everything my OB shafts will do, plus I can curve a ball with it at will. I want one, BAD.

bbb said:

I HAVE TRIED ALL 3 AND HAVE RETURNED ALL 3...
i did not see any magical energy transfer/super spin generation/or better low deflection properties than my ob1+
maybe i dont play good enough to appreciate cabon fiber shafts
but its still the indian not the arrow and for me this was not a better arrow
jmho
icbw

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Have you considered moving to Carbondale IL?

First, to set the record straight. There are lots of "Holy Grail" cues...just look at the For Sale Forum. Every cue hits a TON, too.

I'll explain what "I" like in a cue.

It hits "solid"

It "moves" the cue ball well

It doesn't make any loud sounds when it hits the cue ball (no high pitched plinking) (which can usually be fixed by having a softer tip and/or ferrule) (the REVO sounds weird to me)

It doesn't vibrate like a tuning fork the minute you hit the cue ball off center

It is balanced to my liking (somewhere around 18-19 inches

It has a pro taper for about a foot, but not one of those 20 inch tapers

It has somewhere around a 13mm tip (strictly for my own bridging comfort)

It is somewhere around a 20 ounce weight

It is straight (doesn't have to be PERFECT)

Now, with that said, I can say I've had $10 production cues that met all those requirements and have had custom cues that would cost thousands that didn't.

As much as Southwest cues are touted, I can honestly say that I have NEVER hit with one that "I" thought felt as good as my favorite playing cues. This is me, not the cue. There is something about them that doesn't suit me and what I "feel" when I'm using them.

There is another custom maker that makes shafts so stiff that they feel like you are hitting the cue ball with a rebar rod and they make this weird high-pitched sound. They sound brittle, like glass breaking.

Once you have a cue that you "know", you feel more comfortable with it and become more consistent. Some cues allow you to "know" them better than other cues, for some reason. I think it is a combination of feedback, sound, vibration, and action that allows you to "communicate" more with the cue, which makes it work better for "YOU".

There are people who will pick up a cue that I think is "dead" and they will tell me how good it plays and maybe the cues that they think are "dead" are the cues for me.

You need to find a cue that you can "communicate" with.

When I first hit with a REVO, it hit nice and solid, but I didn't like the sound of it. That maybe could have been fixed with a tip change. However, I have shot with several of them since and they all had some sort of sound that didn't sound "normal" to ME.

When I fist picked up the Becue, it met almost all the requirements I like in a cue and listed above (save for the shaft was less than 13mm).

The cue and I "communicated" immediately. I picked it up and there was no learning curve of any sort. One thing I noticed, right off the bat, was that the cue "felt" like it was "going through" the cue ball more "solid" than a wooden shaft, but it felt like and played like a wooden shaft (if that makes sense). It seemed like there was more transfer of energy between the cue and the cue ball than there was with a wooden shaft, given the same stroke.

Get something you like. Play with it. If you don't like it, get rid of it. Don't let anybody tell you what it is "worth". The "worth" is how well you play with it.

pt109 said:

Have you considered moving to Carbondale IL?

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He’s staying in Woodstock IL.

First, i'd like to see the posts where anyone called any LD shaft the "holy grail".

So, the standard now is that Mosconi didn't play with one even though they were not yet invented... Hmmmm.

And guess what, my son's baseball gloves were Wilson A2000 gloves. He never wore the same glove as Lou Gehrig nor does one single player in the Major Leagues. Personally, play with what you like, but why maple guys hate on LD or carbon is beyond me.

Why does it bother folks so much that you can play splendidly with a non LD shaft? Heck, if I played that good i'd be at the table all the time

ChicagoRJ said:

First, i'd like to see the posts where anyone called any LD shaft the "holy grail".

So, the standard now is that Mosconi didn't play with one even though they were not yet invented... Hmmmm.

And guess what, my son's baseball gloves were Wilson A2000 gloves. He never wore the same glove as Lou Gehrig nor does one single player in the Major Leagues. Personally, play with what you like, but why maple guys hate on LD or carbon is beyond me.

Why does it bother folks so much that you can play splendidly with a non LD shaft? Heck, if I played that good i'd be at the table all the time

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That is what I've said forever.

The cue that works best for "you" is the cue that you should be using.

There is no one best for everyone and people need to get over it.

Those that use LD badmouth non-LD.

Those that use non-LD, badmouth LD.

Those that use custom cues badmouth production cues.

Those that use production cues badmouth custom cues.

And now that carbon fiber has become the rage, those who play with wood badmouth carbon fiber.

IMO, most of the people I see badmouthing carbon fiber are the people who have expensive cues with wooden shafts who maybe think their investment may go down with the big switch to carbon fiber. The same goes for custom cue makers. I can't see them being too happy with everyone jumping to carbon fiber. Even though carbon fiber shafts costs around twice as much as custom shafts, I don't think that will deter many people from ordering carbon shafts over custom wooden ones. And, if carbon shafts "hold up" like they are advertised to do, it will cut out people ordering multiple shafts from a custom maker.

Unless you are playing hundreds of games for lots of money all the time, I don't see why people are so worried about missing a ball once in a while due to "deflection". I can't honestly say that I missed lots and lots of balls due to deflection before LD shafts came out.

If the APA players are worried about deflection, that is another matter. I can see why all that deflection has held a 2 back from becoming a 3 for a few years. Those are the guys I see every Sunday talking about their new LD shafts and how much better it makes them play. And their new break cues doing so much damage to the balls when they can barely hold the cue and almost never can hit the head ball.

There are some shafts that are almost totally "unplayable" due to deflection, but those are ones that any good player would never buy if they had the chance to hit with them first.

I have always recommended that people try a cue before they buy it, if they have that chance. If it works for them, buy it and then stick with it until you learn how to play with it.

I have LD and non-LD cues and shafts in both wood and carbon and I can play with all of them.

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$TAKE HOR$E said:

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Shoot. I remember about 15 years ago, my old man got a new fiberglass cue tec at Sears. The selling point was not low deflection, but that it would not warp, and would not get dinged.

I thought it was the ugliest thing in the world. It was all black and he swore up and down that it wad going to replace wooden cues. Oh, and he regularly robbed me with it.

15 years later, maple shafts are still around. I bet they will be around long after carbon fiber has been usurped by the newest high tech material.

Doesn't mean carbon fiber ain't great. Play with what makes you happy

Only thing gonna make you play better is a straighter stroke. Everybody has to find their own "Hogan Secret" --> That being a grip that allows a straight stroke for their body habitus, natural without trying to steer.

DTL
find your grip

DTL said:

Only thing gonna make you play better is a straighter stroke. Everybody has to find their own "Hogan Secret" --> That being a grip that allows a straight stroke for their body habitus, natural without trying to steer.

DTL
find your grip

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Habitus?....you just added another word to my vocabulary.
Wud’ja do?....swallow a thesaurus?

pt109 said:

Habitus?....you just added another word to my vocabulary.
Wud’ja do?....swallow a thesaurus?

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It's a common term used in medicine.

Everybody's hands are a little different. Big, small, short fingers, long fingers, fat fingers, skinny fingers, etc. Same with height/weight.

@HawaiianEye
but the PrimeM-Shaft 12.5mm definitely vibrates like a tuning fork. You can see that also in the Deflectiontest by Marek. Quite different the 5.1 shaft.

wibo said:

@HawaiianEye
but the PrimeM-Shaft 12.5mm definitely vibrates like a tuning fork. You can see that also in the Deflectiontest by Marek. Quite different the 5.1 shaft.

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I have one of the original Prime shafts at 12mm and it doesn't vibrate like that.

I also have a 5.1 shaft which is a bit stiffer.

My Prime shaft has a bit more "flex" than the 5.1, but it doesn't turn into a tuning fork when you hit a ball off center with it. I can hit the very edge of the cue ball with a firm stroke and it still feels like I'm hitting center ball with the cue. That is one of the unique things I liked about it the first time I picked up a Becue.

I've been hoping to try out a 12.5mm Prime M, but if it is a "vibrator", I don't want one.

Take a closer look at the Video from Marek. It is easy to see and I can confirm it. But I do not have the feeling that this is already felt when encountered with the ball, but only after.

wibo said:

Take a closer look at the Video from Marek. It is easy to see and I can confirm it. But I do not have the feeling that this is already felt when encountered with the ball, but only after.

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I use a tight closed bridge and I usually am still down on the shot, with my cue in my bridge, for a couple of seconds after the cue has struck the cue ball. I have never felt "tuning fork-like" vibrations in my shaft during that time. If they occur, it isn't something that I can feel.

However, I have had several wooden shafts that had very distinct and noticeable vibrations when you hit the cue ball off center. The vibrations were so strong that it would have been impossible to not feel them. Some of those vibrations may have been caused by the overall construction of the cue, or the materials, rather than the shaft alone.

Whatever the case, I'm content with the way the Becue plays and feels to ME.

I have other cues, with wooden shafts, that feel "totally different" and "foreign" now, since I've been using the Becue for quite a while. Once you get used to the Becue, you immediately notice the "difference" between the feel of it and a "wooden" cue, even though it "hits" and "feels" like a wooden cue. I can't explain what I'm trying to explain because you have to "feel" it to understand the "feeling". It hits like a wood shaft, but "feels" better...like maybe it was some super duper premium shaft of some sort.

I got mine as a "steal"...an offer that I couldn't refuse, so I don't have a lot of money tried up that I'm trying to get back, should I ever try to sell it, so I have no monetary need to promote it. I could sell it for way, way less than what they go for and still get back more money than I paid for it in the first place.

I'm in no way saying that everyone should run out and buy one. I have nothing to do with them and don't get a nickel for anything I say about them, but I have no problem endorsing something that I think is a good product.

In edit:

I just thought of something that I don't know if I ever mentioned in a Becue thread...the LD properties.

I've never really measured how much it deflects. To me, I shoot with it and it goes pretty much where I think it is going to go. If that isn't scientific enough for you, they try one out and give us some Dr Dave stuff.

Before using the Becue as a player, I was using a 314-2 Predator FAT shaft, which I liked and had gotten used to playing with. The LD properties between it and the regular shaft I'd been playing with before that were a bit noticeable, but the deflection was manageable on my old shaft so it only took a little while to adjust to the Predator.

I don't know if the Becue is a lot different than the Predator LD-wise because I was able to pick it up and start shooting with it on day one without me feeling I was making any adjustments.

One thing that I don't like about the Predator shafts is they have a "buckling" feeling when you hit the cue ball hard, even the FAT shaft has that feeling. I assume that "buckle" is caused by the hollow part of the shaft deflecting away from the cue ball. I use a lot of "power" shots and I feel that "buckle" takes away some of the power that you would get from a shaft that maybe had more deflection, but buckled less.

When you hit the ball with the same speed with the Becue you don't get that feeling. If the shaft "buckles", it isn't a noticeable feeling and it doesn't feel like you are losing any power.

I'll leave that up to the pool scientists to figure out and explain.

What people are missing with a carbon shaft, is the cue tip itself. The same cue shaft but with different tips, will play significantly different for different players. So judging how a cue plays with a tip that does not suite the player is almost pointless.
Neil

Wibo, I went back and watched Marek's video and wow what a difference. I've been shooting with the 12.4 Revo for 18-19 months now and just got the 12.0 prime M for Xmas. Only had very limited play so far with the Prime M but I don't recall having that much fluctuation on the shaft while using English. Plan on getting some more table time with it this week and the new Cuetec as well. Hopefully I end up liking them both as much as the Revo.

May eventually go for the mezz when it comes out too as long as they have radial pin option.

conetip said:

What people are missing with a carbon shaft, is the cue tip itself. The same cue shaft but with different tips, will play significantly different for different players. So judging how a cue plays with a tip that does not suite the player is almost pointless.
Neil

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I agree.

I had Ultra-skin mediums on my Becue 5.1 shaft when I got it, but I thought it hit a bit too hard. I changed it to a soft, like the rest of my other shafts and I think it feels and plays way better to ME.

I know what kind of "hit" I like, but I don't always know what to do to make a shaft have that "hit". Sometimes changing the tip will do it. Other times changing the ferrule will do it. Then maybe you need to change both. Or even the taper of the shaft.

There are a lot of variables. That is why I tell people to keep a cue that they are used to and shoot well with. It is hard to find something to replace it, much less finding something that you may like better.

Lots of modern cues use ferrules and tips that are harder than what I like. Many of them have a "ping" that some people love, but I hate. I like something more "muted". I also think a cue ball will come off the tip with a "noticeable" difference when you use different hardness tips. A hard tip "rebounds" the cue ball faster than I like. To me, I "feel" that I can "feel" the cue ball on the tip for a millisecond longer when I have a softer tip. The pool scientists will maybe tell you different, but I've beat more pool scientists than they have beaten me, so I'm using what I think works best for ME. Also, I've heard Earl, Rodney, and numerous other players say the same thing I do, even though they may like a different tip than I like. Who you going to trust, Earl or a pool scientist?

If the pool scientists can't feel the difference for themselves, then maybe they need to spend less time with their fingers in test tubes and petri dishes and more time with their fingers wrapped around a pool cue.