Jayson Shaw: Worst coach ever?

jeffj2h

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve had people “coach” me before by trying to amp me up with their own highly intense/critical/adrenaline/fixated gestures. It’s counterproductive for me.

This is exactly my point. Here's an example from the pro world:

During the 1997 US Open finals, Earl jumps out to a huge lead over Efren. Earl is shooting great, getting the rolls, and Efren is struggling and not even getting an open shot. Finally 20 minutes into the match, with the score 4-0 Earl, Efren is left with a reasonable open shot. The crowd erupts in cheers, saying "here you go Efren" or whatever. Billy Incardona recognizes that this cheering is counter productive, and what do you know, Efren misses the shot by 2 inches.
 

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PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
There is an art to coaching players to give their best performance. Getting in their face is rarely part of that. The best coaching may consist of only a few well chosen words. Jeremy's visits with players during matches were usually very brief.

I suspect Jeremy is a bit wiser than Shaw.
 

jeffj2h

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The lesson learned is don't cheer your team mate on that his opponents miss just gave him an "easy out!". Never yell out that the current layout should be considered "easy" or "automatic". You just doubled the pressure on your own team mate!
 

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
I have to hand it to Shaw for great sportsmanship. In the first match Shaw versus Thorpe, Billy kicked at a ball and Ken called a
bad hit. Ken even picked up the cue ball. Jason jumped up and said no, it was a good hit. On review it turns out it was a good hit.

I respect Shaw as a player and a human for not allowing a bad call, even if it went against him.

Also explains why he was fuming when a foul was incorrectly not called against his opponent Bergman in the first (team) match. Shaw saw it and called out the ref who failed to spot it in the replay.
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When Team USA was losing Mosconi Cup after Mosconi Cup, I remember posting on this forum that there was no team unity. Some of the players seemed to approach it as a free vacation and a free payday, win or lose. They did not seem to connect together as a team, and quite frankly, some of them didn't even seem like they were trying. Sightseeing and enjoying the venue distractions seem to be on top of the list for some.

Whereas, when Johan was coach of Team Euopre, they did have unity and connect together as a team. And they won year after year after year.;)

The combination of a well-respected *and* well-liked American champion like Jeremy Jones also in the mix of coaching Team USA definitely contributed to Team USA's camaraderie. :cool:

I love Marcus Chamat. I'm not sure, though, if Team Europe is getting the same coaching and training that Team USA is at this time. Maybe they're so good, they feel they don't need to go through the motions of it. I'm not sure.

It is so hard to believe that Kaci at the age of 20 and Filler at the age of 22 are competing on this level. Imagine what they're going to be like in about 10 years. Yikes! :p
 

GaryB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I saw and see upon watching again is a negative reaction on Filler's part to whatever Shaw is saying. Pretty obvious.

Secondly, Marcus is the coach and Shaw is out of line usurping Marcus' responsibility. It created a very seemingly uncomfortable moment for Filler, Chamat and the European team.

JJ just continues to gain respect for his intelligent approach to coaching. As Jay mentioned seldom does an emotional in your face and space rant create favorable results.

Did I hear? No. Do I believe my interpretation of what I witnessed? Yes.

I still believe Shaw has work to do on his emotional, sometimes overly emotional approach to pool both on and apparently off the table. He has improved but should leave the coaching during a match to the designated coach.
 

TX Poolnut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My guess is that Jayson was referencing the Charles Dickens classic "Great Expectations." All kidding aside, though, Filler hardly needs anyone getting in his face at this moment. Of course, maybe they were just discussing the Trump impeachment process --- seems that's all most people are talking about these days.

Jayson Shaw: "Heaven knows we need never be ashamed of our tears, for they are rain upon the blinding dust of earth, overlying our hard hearts!"

Joshua Filler: :scratchhead:
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
My guess is that Jayson was referencing the Charles Dickens classic "Great Expectations." All kidding aside, though, Filler hardly needs anyone getting in his face at this moment. Of course, maybe they were just discussing the Trump impeachment process --- seems that's all most people are talking about these days.

....or Brexit...

Will Prout
 

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't believe Jayson's way of talking to Filler worked well for Filler at all. The way he averts his eyes and replies in a dismissive manner tells me that. His whole body language screams "get the furg out of my face, go sit over there".
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Still think this was more not liking Shaw and exploiting one exchange to claim he's a horrible coach, lol.

Again, who knows what was said and again, maybe all the negative assumptions are correct.

Doubt any part of it for the good or otherwise affected him one little bit.

Watch the U.S. corner, plenty of times the players were engaged in what appeared to be good discussions and plenty of times if you want to jump to conclusions about body language players could have been interpreted as preferring the coach GTFO, lol.

Frankly, during the actual match, I think you'd let the pros play and stay away. Jones seemed to be in there a lot more during the last singles matches - was he adding much? Who knows. He and Woodward appear to have a really good relationship, but you could see some exchanges that to me looked like a healthy exchange of ideas and to someone wanting to overreact and call JJ a horrible coach could be manufactured into something it wasn't - "look, Skylar was looking away during that, he's ignoring his coach, leave him alone" - just too easy to assume what is happening without all the context.

Anyway if you are the "King" - nothing should bother you!
 

benjaminwah

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aren’t they mic’ed up? We can hear comments from players like “touch of a rapist” that make world news but can’t hear that conversation?

I absolutely think Shaw did more harm than good.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Jayson Shaw: "Heaven knows we need never be ashamed of our tears, for they are rain upon the blinding dust of earth, overlying our hard hearts!"

Joshua Filler: :scratchhead:

Dickens is my favorite author, and you've referenced a beautiful line from his masterpiece "Great Expectations", but I wonder if these were really Shaw's words to Filler.
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dickens is my favorite author, and you've referenced a beautiful line from his masterpiece "Great Expectations", but I wonder if these were really Shaw's words to Filler.

"Josh you are dead: to begin with."
 

8BallWonderland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was sitting right behind the Europeans chair and was watching closely every time Shaw was talking to Filler including when Shaw was pointing back towards the table explaining things
What he was telling Filler was he's noticed something about the break and how the balls are opening up.
He was adamant Filler needs to break from the other side.
Filler did and if I remember that break worked he made the wing ball.
I actually congratulated Shaw on his coaching at the after party and he thanked me and confirmed that's what he was telling Filler.

I was actually shocked players from both teams stuck to breaking from the left side of the table in some matches where the wing ball wasn't going in.
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hate to be talked to when i am playing
who needs a stinkin coach

sometime i played partners,all i ever say is good shot
don't worry i always miss like that

its all on your shoulders,you knew i couldn't play
when we took the game

i hate a critical partner
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Filler strikes me as the arrogant type who doesn't respond well to ANY coaching from ANYONE. No surprise he was put off by whatever Shaw had to say. IMO, Filler could learn a bit from Shaw. Shaw jumped on the scene with similar fan fare as Filler and was equally as arrogant and outspoken. To his credit, Shaw has matured over the years to the professional we saw this week. Filler should take note but he's too busy proclaiming himself "the king". I thought it was very fitting he was the one who sold out to lose the Cup to probably the most humble player on the planet.
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Misperception

LOL
Folks are jumping to conclusions
Towards end of their conversation as Jayson turns and about to walk away, Filler calls him and fistpump him. That means they are cool and there is nothing to it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wew2zaxy0BA&feature=youtu.be&t=1778
They know each other well and it is not uncommon for close friends to talk like that and to outsiders it looks like they are fighting
:grin:
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was sitting right behind the Europeans chair and was watching closely every time Shaw was talking to Filler including when Shaw was pointing back towards the table explaining things
What he was telling Filler was he's noticed something about the break and how the balls are opening up.
He was adamant Filler needs to break from the other side.
Filler did and if I remember that break worked he made the wing ball.
I actually congratulated Shaw on his coaching at the after party and he thanked me and confirmed that's what he was telling Filler.

I was actually shocked players from both teams stuck to breaking from the left side of the table in some matches where the wing ball wasn't going in.

Thanks for the info!

Yes, he did switch to the other side and it did work.
 

AkGuy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Me thnks...

Me thinks Filler looked worse as his match with Skylar continued. I think it was the pressure of the Cup, the pressure he put on him self to shoot perfect pool and Shaw leaning in on him and saying what ever he said.

Thank you for the help Coach Shaw!
 
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