Segmentation Success
That goes to show it takes many segments to make an overall success.
That goes to show it takes many segments to make an overall success.
Sportsbars and Pool....a Conundrum of Opposites
- Thread starter 336Robin
- Start date
One of the common failures I have seen is as you point out, that is not a lot of money. Now imagine three partners cutting that up. For some reason people like partners.
My father used to tell me one partner is one to many. You have to figure out how to go it alone, you don't want partners for more reasons then just cutting up the money.
azsportpilot
Registered
Maybe something other then pool can save pool
bear with me here.... i know that started off sounding crazy
Skiing was a dying sport, both Downhill and Cross-Country
Lift Ticket sales, equipment, clothing, magizine sales.. all declining rapidly
Then came the Snow Board Mania...... young people took to snowboarding in record numbers.... and the sales numbers are insane,
Well a rising tide raises all boats
Skiing is back and in a big way and most ski lodges, instructors and equipment manufacturers seem to think its all due to those damn Snowboards
Playing Darts in the local bar got me into pool (or back into pool is more correct) probably would not have happened if not for the dart bar also being a "pool bar"
Possibly some alternate activity could draw young people into the pool halls and bars where they will discover pool
If you own a building why would you want a business in there that can't support itself unless you are already making money in another business. In other words...for fun.
If I own a stadium do I want to have football or frisbee on Sunday afternoons?
This kind of thinking reminds me of a woman who's married to a millionaire that lets her run her organic food/wheatgrass juice store rent free in a prime storefront to keep her happy.
Great thread!
I love reading the comments and seeing others opinions.
I will give you a little input on what I think you need to succeed in a pool room.
1 You have to find a city that will welcome your idea.
2 You have to find a suitable building that will not cost you a arm and leg to upfit and get doors open.
3 You have to also find that building in a clean non threatening area of town.
4 You need to find a city that is surrounded by a lot of pool players...especially league players.
5 Find a suitable building with the bar and cafe adjoining your pool room.
6 Rent has to be cheap.
7 Equipment has to be top quality.
8 Abundant seating and playing area around the tables.
9 You have to have a area and set times for kids 20 and under to be able to come in.
10 Full service bar and cafe with great food at reasonable cost.
11 Coin operated bar tables and 9 foot hourly tables with reasonable rates that promote extended play.
12 A great staff of people who know and understand how to take care of the Players.
13 A strong monthly plan to bring in 2 major 3-5 day events every month.
14 A owner who will give back to the people who supports his room.
15 Open 24 hours on weekends.
Welcome to Chandleys Chalk and Cue!
Coming soon!
I love reading the comments and seeing others opinions.
I will give you a little input on what I think you need to succeed in a pool room.
1 You have to find a city that will welcome your idea.
2 You have to find a suitable building that will not cost you a arm and leg to upfit and get doors open.
3 You have to also find that building in a clean non threatening area of town.
4 You need to find a city that is surrounded by a lot of pool players...especially league players.
5 Find a suitable building with the bar and cafe adjoining your pool room.
6 Rent has to be cheap.
7 Equipment has to be top quality.
8 Abundant seating and playing area around the tables.
9 You have to have a area and set times for kids 20 and under to be able to come in.
10 Full service bar and cafe with great food at reasonable cost.
11 Coin operated bar tables and 9 foot hourly tables with reasonable rates that promote extended play.
12 A great staff of people who know and understand how to take care of the Players.
13 A strong monthly plan to bring in 2 major 3-5 day events every month.
14 A owner who will give back to the people who supports his room.
15 Open 24 hours on weekends.
Welcome to Chandleys Chalk and Cue!
Coming soon!
Looking Forward to it
Mike
I'm looking forward to seeing your place.
I can only find a few things missing in your list. I think there needs to be a place for recruiting new people from the general public.
also
There needs to be a way to loosely manage people who really don't want to commit to league play
If you can add those two somehow, you seem dedicated and excited enough to make things work. Thats good to see.
Mike
I'm looking forward to seeing your place.
I can only find a few things missing in your list. I think there needs to be a place for recruiting new people from the general public.
also
There needs to be a way to loosely manage people who really don't want to commit to league play
If you can add those two somehow, you seem dedicated and excited enough to make things work. Thats good to see.
I want to correct something I said in this response. I made a comment about owning your own building like it was meaningless, it is not. True the building is an investment that could be providing you income, but owning your own building has a lot of advantages.
One being a fixed payment rather the a constant escalating rent. A payment by the way that will be much less then rent. Yes, there are expenses in owning the building, upkeep and so on but it is your building that you are gaining equity in.
Someone may say, yes but you have to pay taxes. Well, you are paying all those expenses anyway when you are renting, they are built into the rent,
You are also free to do what you want without someone looking over your shoulder. You don't have to answer to someone for your every move.
Finally you have a viable business you have built that you can sell, hopefully for a nice price and become the landlord. It is not always that easy to sell a business when you rent, you always have the landlord to contend with. They can be real pric#s. Owning your own building has advantages that are hard not to like. I jusy wanted to come back and say that.
A good example is CM's place in Seminole Fl. He put up his own building and does have tenants. If you click on the map and go to the street view you will see the great place he built. That was over 30 years ago. I would wonder if it would still be there if he had just rented some place when he wanted to open. He created for himself more then just a pool room business, he had a vision for his future and the balls to do it. I have not seen CM in many years hope he is well, he is a real nice guy..
https://plus.google.com/11027549635...hl=en#110275496354973273425/about?gl=us&hl=en
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the only way for a pool hall to be able to operate in such a way that the pool players will be happy is to find another means to keep the business profitable. hence the sportsbar/pool hall. i've seen way too many of those that work way too well to buy into the whole "it doesn't work" mentality. if it's done properly, and with passion...it will work. it's when the owner gets burnt out it doesn't work.
When owner gets burnt out
I think it would be easy to get burnt out on catering to Pool Players wants all the time and that is a pretty good argument for bringing New Players into Pool and managing them in a way that keeps a lot of the money in house rather than send all of it out to league systems. Sorry but its true.
League System viability is in the recruitment piece but the truth is a lot of league players only play once a week. So the money they spend many times never touches the Room Owners hands.
I think it would be easy to get burnt out on catering to Pool Players wants all the time and that is a pretty good argument for bringing New Players into Pool and managing them in a way that keeps a lot of the money in house rather than send all of it out to league systems. Sorry but its true.
League System viability is in the recruitment piece but the truth is a lot of league players only play once a week. So the money they spend many times never touches the Room Owners hands.
That is actually true about most any business. A tire store does brake work and oil changes. Go into a marine and boating supply and they will have a section selling clothing and tee shirts.
No matter what the business you often can't always survive in the main business without other incomes from what are often almost not even related. That is not a knock on the pool room business, it is just stating the obvious.
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Barbershops and Pool
The small rooms we were talking about. I can see a barberchair in the back room and a pool room in the front. People would play but it will take the barber to keep the room open. If the state will license the barber for it.
The small rooms we were talking about. I can see a barberchair in the back room and a pool room in the front. People would play but it will take the barber to keep the room open. If the state will license the barber for it.
Yes. I believe my pool room is as successful as it is because the owner is constantly tweaking it to keep his customers interested. And I believe the rooms that fade away are those that get stuck in a rut and left behind by an ever changing (and ever more fickle) marketplace.
Pool room owners tend to view their businesses as selling a product (pool) - but they're in the entertainment business, and need to treat their customers like girlfriends: keep it fresh or they'll find it elsewhere.
Unfortunately for us, "serious" pool players aren't the most lucrative market for pool rooms. They're the ones who only come for happy hour and nurse one drink the whole time.
pj
chgo
Yes. Good owners. As I have stated before I am lucky to play in a room with a great owner who values good equipment and believes in promoting the game. He is constantly in touch with his competition (other owners) and actually wishes them the best knowing that promoting each other they promote themselves.
New Customers
The most lucrative pool customers are the New Ones and if you really want them, they are out there to recruit but little seems to be done in the way of stimulating general public interest into playing.
A new player gets interested and buys a cue, he practices to get better he is like a canvass and he listens to whatever a room owner or better players tell him.
Not to recruit is almost like a sin in this business yet its rarely done and certainly never done by stuck in the muck room owners who are chasing the alcohol dollar only.
Here is a new social media website......Meetup.com
You can register a group, join a group in my zipcode alone there are 106 local groups and 17,427 members of those groups all of which could be invited to come play pool.
The group registration fee is $400 per year and $200 when its on special.
$400/17427 =.02cents per person you could access via invitations by contacting those groups and inviting them in......what is not to love? Yet when I pitched to a room owner he looked at me as if I were crazy...At that point I said ok.....I get it...Ive had enough.
The most lucrative pool customers are the New Ones and if you really want them, they are out there to recruit but little seems to be done in the way of stimulating general public interest into playing.
A new player gets interested and buys a cue, he practices to get better he is like a canvass and he listens to whatever a room owner or better players tell him.
Not to recruit is almost like a sin in this business yet its rarely done and certainly never done by stuck in the muck room owners who are chasing the alcohol dollar only.
Here is a new social media website......Meetup.com
You can register a group, join a group in my zipcode alone there are 106 local groups and 17,427 members of those groups all of which could be invited to come play pool.
The group registration fee is $400 per year and $200 when its on special.
$400/17427 =.02cents per person you could access via invitations by contacting those groups and inviting them in......what is not to love? Yet when I pitched to a room owner he looked at me as if I were crazy...At that point I said ok.....I get it...Ive had enough.
Robin, I go to the same poolroom you go to and describe in this thread. I do not see the same picture you paint about this business. It’s one of the nicest poolrooms I’ve been in and I’ll do what I can to help keep it in business. Tonight as an example, the in-house 9-Ball league ends and there is a barbeque banquet, all the barbeque and fixings free to all players including the Thursday in-house 8-Ball league players – all paid for by the owner. There will probably be 60+ people plus anyone interested in the upcoming 9-Ball league is also invited. That’s a lot of barbeque. Oh, and free pool all evening on 15 9-foot Diamond tables. The place will be packed.
The 9-Ball league on Wednesday’s draw 40+ people and the 8-Ball league also 40+. Each league charges $10 per person per night’s play with $7 or $8 going into the pot (depending on league) and the owner also adds to the pot. You’re playing pool all evening on league nights for $2-3 and if your team is in the top 4-5 at league end, individually you’ll win a few hundred bucks. After the second session of the current 8-Ball league there will be a weekend team tournament with 3k to be added by the owner. To me, that is promoting pool and giving back to the players. Yes, poolrooms in general are struggling but there are bright spots, too. I think alcohol, food and pool can co-mingle quite well.
I’m just a customer but if others are near Winston-Salem, NC you should check out Break Time Billiards and Sports Bar. It’s a great place to play pool. Here’s a link: http://www.breaktimesports.com
David B.
I own a Pool Room in Ventura CA. Look you have to have something for everyone whether its more TV's, more Bar Tables or better food. One thing you have to have is leagues. You can't make it without them and they are bangers and sometimes drink too much. Forget having a players room cause they don't exist anymore. This is the current state of pool and the future of pool.
They can coexist. It does not have to be one or the other.
David,
There is quite a bit here you dont know. If you had a problem with something I said I would have thought you would have simply spoke to me and I would explain my feelings to you. I didnt name this business you did. I didnt suggest at all that this business wasnt doing anything to help players as you have pointed out and you have me on the defensive now. I dont care to be on the defensive but I see access to 17, 427 New People for a very small fee a justifiable expense when the cost per new person you have access to is.....02cents per person. Your tone with me is not appreciated. I am due to play as a stand in for that league for people who are on vacation for the next month each Thursday. I was willing to volunteer my services.... for free..... to lead a Pool Club there but that door was also slammed in my face. So I guess it would be ok for me to pay for it too. I think I have better things to do.
I appreciate the Pool Ladder you are running but correct me if I'm wrong this didnt cost anything to implement and you volunteered your time, which I'm grateful for its a great thing.
I said absolutely nothing concerning this business until you broke out with it.
You act as if Im trying to voice negative press about this business but I said nothing of the sort about this business. Youve got on your soap box about something and spouted off. I guess to show me up. Nice going.
Had you spoken to me instead of taking it out of context, you might have found that I want this business to stay open as much or more than you and would like to see some new faces in to play. New faces as it pertains to New Customers that might end up either bar or Pool Customers.
That is exactly how I worded it to the owner and I said nothing about this business on here specifically, but I did say that it appears this is the way things are in this type of business.
I think youre way out of line with your accusations and comments.
You put words in my mouth that I did not say, thats called slander.
I cannot believe you did this quite honestly.
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Robin, I'm not mad or out to hurt your feelings and I did not put any words in your mouth. You stated "Its come to my attention that the whole Sportsbar/Pool Place doesnt seem to work out." All I said was that I do not see the same picture you paint and I don't. I then spent my time discussing the good things the poolroom is doing for it's customers. My point was that there are a lot of positives in pool and I believe a Sports Bar can work. Nothing slanderous there and nothing meant to cause ill will.